Talk:sráid
Add topicLatest comment: 7 years ago by Mahagaja in topic Non native pronunciations
Non native pronunciations
[edit]So non-native Irish often pronounce it as /ʃrɑːd͡ʒe/. Should we include this information in the entry? Historierummet (talk) 02:27, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- If attestable as non-Irish term, e.g. as an English term, than non-Irish pronunciation could be added. Else non-Irish (mis-)pronunciations shouldn't be added, like also the pronunciation of French pin-up (and other terms in Category:French terms borrowed from English) isn't given in the English entry. -80.133.108.40 02:49, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Historierummet: I agree we shouldn't add nonnative pronunciations, despite the fact that Irish is in the unusual position of having many more nonnative than native speakers, so that nonnative pronunciations are actually more common than native ones. (Another example is things like /ˈɡweːlɡə/ instead of /ˈɡeːlʲɟɪ/ for Gaeilge.) —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 10:49, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: I think adding information about non-native pronunciation would be very useful for learners, as they come to the entry on 'sráid' and then see that the way their teacher pronounces it is common as well, but just non-native. Otherwise they might get confused and might be prone to disregard all the native pronunciations given in the entry altogether as non-trustworthy and something that no one uses anyway. Historierummet (talk) 11:58, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Historierummet: Other disadvantages are that nonnative pronunciations aren't verifiable (most of the native pronunciations come from published dialect descriptions) and that there are probably almost as many nonnative pronunciations as there are nonnative speakers, in other words everyone has their own. In this example, maybe some people do pronounce sráid /ʃrɑːd͡ʒe/, but I bet /ʃrɑːd͡ʒ/ is more common since there's no -e at the end of the word. But how do we know? You can't google for pronunciations, and the only thing given in verifiable sources is /sˠɾaːdʲ/. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 13:16, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: I meant /ʃrɑːd͡ʒ/ where I typed /ʃrɑːd͡ʒe/. I understand adding a new category of pronunciations is a major step that should be thoroughly scrutinized and discoussed upon before editing, because there are tons of entries that would be affected in case a policy change, so I refrained from adding anything without previous discussion; but I still think the issue, as I formulated it in my previous reply, should be addressed.Historierummet (talk) 13:47, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- Well, the talk page of a single entry isn't the place to discuss such a wide-ranging possibility. You could bring it up at the Beer parlor. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 15:35, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: I meant /ʃrɑːd͡ʒ/ where I typed /ʃrɑːd͡ʒe/. I understand adding a new category of pronunciations is a major step that should be thoroughly scrutinized and discoussed upon before editing, because there are tons of entries that would be affected in case a policy change, so I refrained from adding anything without previous discussion; but I still think the issue, as I formulated it in my previous reply, should be addressed.Historierummet (talk) 13:47, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Historierummet: Other disadvantages are that nonnative pronunciations aren't verifiable (most of the native pronunciations come from published dialect descriptions) and that there are probably almost as many nonnative pronunciations as there are nonnative speakers, in other words everyone has their own. In this example, maybe some people do pronounce sráid /ʃrɑːd͡ʒe/, but I bet /ʃrɑːd͡ʒ/ is more common since there's no -e at the end of the word. But how do we know? You can't google for pronunciations, and the only thing given in verifiable sources is /sˠɾaːdʲ/. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 13:16, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: I think adding information about non-native pronunciation would be very useful for learners, as they come to the entry on 'sráid' and then see that the way their teacher pronounces it is common as well, but just non-native. Otherwise they might get confused and might be prone to disregard all the native pronunciations given in the entry altogether as non-trustworthy and something that no one uses anyway. Historierummet (talk) 11:58, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Historierummet: I agree we shouldn't add nonnative pronunciations, despite the fact that Irish is in the unusual position of having many more nonnative than native speakers, so that nonnative pronunciations are actually more common than native ones. (Another example is things like /ˈɡweːlɡə/ instead of /ˈɡeːlʲɟɪ/ for Gaeilge.) —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 10:49, 27 November 2017 (UTC)