Talk:phổi

Question

Why is this term not Sino-Vietnamese? 71.66.97.228 22:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

SV readings of 肺 are phế, bái. Also:

p hoːc > pʰoːc poːc " >*p-soːs > p-hoːc > pʰoːc / poːc   "poumons, lungs"   (proto Vietic)   Fer2xx7:R:461
XS	*pʰoːc⁷   ("poumons, lungs")   (proto Pong)   Fer2xx7:C:461-9
XS	phổi   ("poumons, lungs")   (Vietnamese [Hanoi])   Fer2xx7:C:461-20
XS	phổi   ("poumons, lungs")   (Vietnamese [Vinh])   Fer2xx7:C:461-19
XS	foːj⁵   ("poumons, lungs")   (Mương [Thanh Hoa])   Fer2xx7:C:461-17
XS	foːn⁵⁶   ("poumons, lungs")   (Tho [Lang Lo])   Fer2xx7:C:461-14
XS	jǫːʔ   ("poumons, lungs")   (Maleng [Bro])   Fer2xx7:C:461-3
XS	poːc¹   ("poumons, lungs")   (Mương [Son La])   Fer2xx7:C:461-16
XS	poːc⁵   ("poumons, lungs")   (Mương [Bi])   Fer2xx7:C:461-18
XS	poːj⁵   ("poumons, lungs")   (Mương [Hoa Binh])   Fer2xx7:C:461-15
XS	pʰaoj   ("poumons, lungs")   (Pong [Liha])   Fer2xx7:C:461-12
XS	pʰoːc   ("poumons, lungs")   (Pong)   Fer2xx7:C:461-10
XS	pʰoːt   ("poumons, lungs")   (Pong [Phong])   Fer2xx7:C:461-11
XS	pʰɔːl⁵   ("poumons, lungs")   (Tho [Cuoi Cham])   Fer2xx7:C:461-13
XS	soh   ("poumons, lungs")   (Chứt [Rục])   Fer2xx7:C:461-6
XS	soh   ("poumons, lungs")   (Chứt [Sách])   Fer2xx7:C:461-5
XS	soːh   lung   (Chứt [Rục])   Phu1998:C:1106
XS	soːɯʰ¹   ("poumons, lungs")   (Malieng)   Fer2xx7:C:461-1
XS	soː⁵   ("poumons, lungs")   (Maleng [Kha Pong])   Fer2xx7:C:461-2
XS	suh¹   ("poumons, lungs")   (Thavung [Phon Soung])   Fer2xx7:C:461-8
XS	suh¹   ("poumons, lungs")   (Thavung)   Fer2xx7:C:461-7
XS	súh, pasúh   lung (noun)   (Thavung)   Suw2000:C:1495
XS	tɔŋ khalɔ́h   air passages (of the lungs), Adam's apple (noun)   (Thavung)   Suw2000:C:1595
XS	tɔŋ khalɔ̂ːŋ   air passages (of the lungs), Adam's apple (noun)   (Thavung)   Suw2000:C:1594
XS	tʰòh   ("poumons, lungs")   (Chứt [Arem])   Fer2xx7:C:461-4

Hbrug 22:43, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Hbrug, do you have any good links to Sino-Vietnamese dictionaries, which can show "Hán tự" or "chữ Nôm" for a given syllable or word, apart form Unihan? --Anatoli 23:58, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

vi.wikt seems to be quite good. eg. vi:phế: SV readings are under "Phiên âm Hán–Việt", and SV+native readings under "Chữ Nôm". Hbrug 00:02, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Vietnamese wiki: vi:phổi lists 肺 (phế, bái, phổi, chị), 𦟊 (phổi), 𦡮 (phổi) (can't read the last two on my work PC). Are you 100% sure that phổi is not one of the SV readings for 肺? I usually trust their "Chữ Nôm" lists. --Anatoli 00:05, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

The "Chữ Nôm" readings include both Sino-Vietnamese (see vi:phế#Phiên âm Hán–Việt for these) and native readings. 𦡮 is 月普, 𦟊 is 月配 (i.e. a word that sounds similar to the SV of 普 and 配 and refers to a part of the body), both Vietnamese-only, used to write phổi, as they didn't regard phổi as a Chinese borrowing. Hbrug 00:07, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Here are two more:

• http://nomfoundation.org/vnpf_new/index.php?IDcat=51

• http://petrus-tvk.com/ChuThich.html

Note that sometimes vi:Wiktionary and these two databases all give slightly different results.

71.66.97.228 00:09, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. The first link lists 肺 as well! --Anatoli 00:34, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

If you click on the "codepoint" link for 肺, the readings given by "vhn" (Han Nom Research Institute) are the SV readings. Hbrug 00:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that's the case at all. Searching the NLT for "là" yields 纙 from VHN, and vi:là lists 纙 as a Nôm reading. Searching for "càng" yields 強 from VHN, and the Hán-Việt reading of 強 is cường or cưỡng, not càng. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:12, 2 January 2014 (UTC)