Talk:nominative case

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nominative case

See [1] -- Liliana • 02:04, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Delete along with similar "X case" cases. As I said there, they seem clear SoPs at least in English, where case has its grammatical sense and the preceding term (lative, antessive) is typically technical and grammar-specific; and the only defence is that translations might be useful. Equinox ◑ 02:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Even that defense is easily bypassed; the translations can go to nominative (accusative, dative and so on) as they're commonly used without the word 'case'. I'd say these are analogous to computer mouse where the computer is only added to avoid ambiguity, and most of the time it isn't ambiguous. Delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:12, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I see no analogy between "nominative case" and "computer mouse" at all. While "mouse" is used alone to refer to the pointing device, "case" is never used alone to refer to a particular grammatical case with the assumption that the choice of the particular case is made using the context. --Dan Polansky 10:34, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how "nominative case" can be considered SoP. A "nominative noun" is merely a noun that is nominative; however, the nominative case is the abstract set of word endings that signify use as a subject, subject complement, or modifier of such a word. It is not merely a case that is nominative. Note also that our definition of nominative as an adjective doesn't come anywhere near the relevant meaning that could make this SoP. --EncycloPetey 00:03, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Sure, delete.​—msh210℠ (talk) 17:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Strong keep. What is wrong with it? In case a consensus is not reached. To you people eager to delete important entries - will someone take responsibility for translations and make sure they are merged nicely in nominative and ALL the other grammar cases? Before this is done, all the entries should be kept. These are very important grammatical terms! What's next? subjunctive mood, past tense? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить)} 22:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I already did nominative, genitive, accusative, partitive and inessive. Will not do more before this discussion has been solved.

• Keep per my arguments in Talk:free variable. In short, the definition of the adjective "nominative" that would make this term a semantic sum of parts is specific to grammatical cases, and "nominative case" is very often written together, much more commonly than the adjective "nominative" is used in a predicative position. An example of a term with this property that is much better known than "free variable" is "prime number". --Dan Polansky 08:28, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Nominative is also a noun meaning "nominative case". So are all X's in combinations "X case". Does that make any difference? --Hekaheka 10:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you analyse "nominative case" as "nominative" (noun) + "case" (noun)? I do not; I analyse "nominative case" as "nominative" (adjective) + "case" (noun). From how it appears to me, "nominative" (noun) is a shortening of "nominative case", possibly modeled on Latin, but I do not really know. Ditto for "subjunctive mood" and "subjunctive" (noun). --Dan Polansky 10:50, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Your analysis is correct. The noun sense derives from a shortening of the phrase "X case". --EncycloPetey 23:56, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

• Delete. There's nothing about nominative case that can't be said at nominative#Noun. Even translations can go there. It's quite a different case from free variable, whose information cannot really be given at free. —Angr 23:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

  This is like Pacific Ocean and Pacific, or like parietal bone and parietal; we would not delete either item in either of those simply because they are synonyms with the shorter form noun sense developing from the longer phrasal one. And yes, both the phrase nominative case and the term nominative have grammatical features similar to "weak" proper nouns like Pacific Ocean, such as required use of the definite article. --EncycloPetey 23:56, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

  The definition of "free variable" can be given at "free": "Of a variable, such that it is not bound to a storage location". The definition of "red dwarf" can be given at "red": "Of a dwarf star, small and relatively cool one of the main sequence" (my argument from Talk:free variable). --Dan Polansky 11:16, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

• Keep - this is the noun phrase from which the first noun sense of (deprecated template usage) nominative developed. The term nominative was originally an adjective, and only acquired its parimary noun sense through use in this phrase. Please note also that I've located and added a second definition to the entry. --EncycloPetey 23:56, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
• Keep too for the reasons that have been mentioned. —CodeCat 20:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
• Keep per Dan Polansky. bd2412 T 15:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
• Keep please. I am not a native English speaker and to me it wasn't at all obvious that "nominative case" meant the nominative grammatical case until Wiktionary told me. It isn't inherently obvious from the two words what they must mean together. — This unsigned comment was added by 82.139.87.39 (talk) at 12:07, 4 February 2012.

Kept. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 03:02, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

For keeping: Anatoli, Dan Polansky, EncycloPetey, CodeCat, bd2412, 82.139.87.39; for deletion: Liliana, Mglovesfun, msh210, Angr. --Dan Polansky 11:04, 17 February 2012 (UTC)