Talk:need

I've given an initial usage note, but I think more grammatical info is needed (ahem) about "need" as a modal verb. — Paul G 10:23, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

We learnt about needn't, but haven't mentioned more formes. I would like to ask if there are more versions, too.

• do not need = needn't
• does not need = needsn't????

And what ought I to do in questions? Can I simly ask: Need you some more infos? or only: Do you need some more infos? And third person, again. Or this all can happen only if need is a modal verb? Ferike333 21:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Example of modal use in question

The example "Need he go?" has been replaced by the example "Need I say more?" While it's true that the latter is more common, there's an advantage to using an example with the third person singular: it illustrates that "need" does not inflect to "needs" when used modally. Can we find a good third person singular example? Duoduoduo 18:07, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

That sentence has three examples with third-person singular subjects, so I think we're O.K. —Ruakh_TALK 19:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

preterite counterpart

According to the Cambridge Grammar of the English language, page 180,

Two modal auxiliaries, must and need, express modal necessity (need, however, is restricted to non-affirmative contexts) but both lack preterite counterparts. In its epistemic use can, like auxiliary need in all its uses, is restricted to non-affirmative contexts--Backinstadiums (talk) 11:11, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Affirmatives with the semi-modal need are used in formal contexts . The semi-modal need has no past simple form. Instead, we use didn’t need/have to when we express no obligation in the past --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)--Backinstadiums (talk) 18:55, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

If you are talking about the past and you want to say that it was not necessary for someone to do something on a particular occasion, you say that they didn't need/have to do it . You do not say that they needn't' do it. However, in a reporting clause you can use needn't : They knew they needn't bother about me.

Like must and auxiliary need, ought to does not change to show past tense: He said we ought to get moving along https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=ought

Need as a modal verb has need for all forms of the present tense, need not (needn’t) as the negative. To talk about the past, use the perfect forms with the past participle. It is used to say that something is (not) necessary. --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:57, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

there needs

NEED: To be essential or necessary to something (archaic)
"I think that we are all agreed in this matter, and therefore there needs no more words about it." (John Bunyan Pilgrim's Progress 1678)
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 13:02, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

How many letters needs an alphabet?

Is this a modal use? How many letters needs an alphabet? --Backinstadiums (talk) 10:01, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

no need to or for something

no need to or for something: no reason or justification for something
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 10:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

(intransitive) to be in need or want.

(Intransitive) to be in need or want. https://oed.com/oed2/00156444 --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Please change reference to “page 21” into “chapter 21”

From https://www.loc.gov/resource/gdcmassbookdig.essayconcerningh00loc/?sp=172&st=text&r=-0.056,-0.403,1.111,2.302,0 I gather that the quote under EN verb need meaning number 4 is not on page 21 as indicated in the entry, but in chapter 21.

I do not know the format, since “page” is not explicitly mentioned in the formula.Redav (talk) 20:23, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Well spotted. Voltaigne (talk) 00:43, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your willingness to help. Unfortunately, I had not been able to locate the quote in the old source referred to when I noted the page-chapter confusion, but I managed to find a different new source, which is what I referred to above.

The current situation in the entry is:

1. reference to the old source in the entry;
2. reference to a page number in the new source in my message on this Talk page.

I will try to replace the old source with the new one in the entry.Redav (talk) 11:18, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I failed to replace it, since I could only find:

1. • 1689 (indicated as 1690), [John Locke], chapter 21, in An Essay Concerning Humane Understanding. […], London: […] Eliz[abeth] Holt, for Thomas Basset, […], →OCLC, book II, page 168:

     When we have done it, we have done our duty, and all that is in our power, and indeed all that needs.

and not a link to the source I provided.

How does one replace the reference with the web address I found?Redav (talk) 11:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oh, it wasn't clear to me that you wanted to change the url, not just the page reference. The "all that needs" quotation appears in the second edition, which can be accessed in {{RQ:Locke Human Understanding}} by specifying edition=2nd. I have  done this. The second-edition url served by {{RQ:Locke Human Understanding}} is a 1694 edition, not the 1850 T.E. Zell edition of your Library of Congress link. If you specifically want to link to the book in the Library of Congress, I think you'll need to use {{quote-book}}. Voltaigne (talk) 13:43, 14 January 2024 (UTC)