Talk:little boy

Deletion debate (1)

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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Given that little girl has been deleted, this should probably follow suit. -- Visviva 07:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Delete DCDuring Holiday Greetings! 10:43, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Delete. See also the "little girl" discussion.—msh210℠ 18:06, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm… But should (deprecated template usage) little girl have been deleted? Can this sense of little (“very young”) be used to modify any noun other than boy, girl, child, kid (“child”)m &c.? If it can be used widely enough, then both (deprecated template usage) little boy and (deprecated template usage) little girl ought to be deleted.
Also consider the similarly-used small boy, small girl, &c.; are they idiomatic? If so, they ought to be created; if not (because this sense of small (“very young”) can be used to modify a broad enough range of nouns), then the additional sense ought to be added to the entry for (deprecated template usage) small, per the resolution to the (deprecated template usage) little girl RfD. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 20:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Little also modifies lamb in a nursery rhyme. At least I think it means "young" there not "small in size". And one of the example sentences we have for it is "Did he tell you any embarrassing stories about when she was little?".—msh210℠ 21:54, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Can one attest "little boy/girl" as definitely meaning "young" and not "small"? I think not, but perhaps it should get its 30 days on RfV. DCDuring Holiday Greetings! 23:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

We sometimes use other dictionaries to support meanings. I think there is a case here to state that most/all main dictionaries include little = young. Another example we could use is My little sister. where little = younger. If we accept this defenition into little, then this entry becomes definitely SoP. -- ALGRIF talk 14:20, 15 January 2009 (UTC) I really should have looked at the entry for little before writing this. Doh. Algrif.

I think little boy refers to a fairly specific age-range and should be kept. I don’t know if the age-range varies with the country. I would say that in the U.S., a little boy is a boy between the ages of 2 and 10. It belongs in the category that incluces teen, teenager, young man, adolescent, baby, toddler, youngster, pre-teen, pre-schooler, old man, etc. —Stephen 23:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree. little boy and little girl (as well as petite fille and petit garçon in French) should be kept. They are set phrases. But, of course, not little boat, little bird, etc. Lmaltier 18:13, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Forgive me if I'm being pedantic. But doesn't the "growth chain" logic mean we can allow puppy, little dog, adult dog (or adult dog)? Ditto for all the other animals I can think of. And, yes, including little bird. -- ALGRIF talk 12:06, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

But I think that little dog, adult dog or little bird are not set phrases at all (except little bird with its special meaning). Lmaltier 20:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC) Similarly, jeune fille should obviously be accepted, not jeune chien. Lmaltier 20:43, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I see four deletes (Visviva, DCDuring, Algrif, and myself) and two keeps (SGB and Lmaltier). I don't feel qualified to delete this on such a slim majority of which I'm a member, so I'll leave it and hope someone else deletes it.  :-) —msh210℠ 17:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC) {{look}}

Delete per little girl --Duncan 20:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC).

Delete as SoP. — Carolina wren discussió 20:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Keep per Stephen and restore little girl. DAVilla 05:41, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Keep — it’s more common nowadays than boykin… † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 02:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Delete as SOP, especially per Algrif. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Keep, and restore (deprecated template usage) little girl. Algrif has pointed out that my (deprecated template usage) little sister means "my younger sister". But note that little girl does not mean "younger girl"; it means "young girl", so we have two different possible ways that (deprecated template usage) little might be interpreted, but only one of those interpretations applies. This is one of the hallmarks of an idiomatic phrase. --EncycloPetey 18:15, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

But our entry at little has {{context|of a sibling}} for "younger", so that makes it clear, doesn't it? --Duncan 19:20, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

No, because boy is not a sibling term. We are discussing "little boy" and the associated "little girl". --EncycloPetey 19:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

But that's my point: "boy/girl" aren't sibling terms, "little" as "younger" applies to sibling terms, so "little boy/girl" doesn't mean "younger boy/girl" - according to the "little" entry, without any need for repeating it under "little boy/girl" entries. --Duncan 20:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Your point does not make sense. In the phrase (deprecated template usage) little boy, "little" means ony "young" or "immature", as in "He cried like a little boy." It does not mean "small". The combination therefore always relies on a specific meaning out of the many that could potentially apply. That makes this an idiomatic construction under the CFI guidelines. --EncycloPetey 19:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. EP: "Little can mean young or younger, but little girl can only mean young girl, not younger girl." Dnc: "But we say at little it only means younger when reffering to siblings." EP: "That's irrelevant as girl isn't a sibling term." Dnc: "Exactly, that's why the younger sense doesn't apply." EP: "That argument doesn't make sense, because little girl cannot mean small girl." I'm afraid this kind of arguing is too subtle for my simple brain.

Notwithstanding if little girl really can't mean small girl (I didn't know that), that would be a reason for keeping the entry, so I'm striking my previous "delete". --Duncan 20:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: I have found a quote with attributive use (and there are many more found easily): --EncycloPetey 02:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

• 1959, Robert Chester Ruark, Poor no more: a novel‎, page 65

  "I didn't realize it until I looked at you in those little boy pants. You look like a grown man playing kid."

I think that the reason why litte boy and little girl are set phrases is that girl and boy cover too many senses and ages, making more specific phrases necessary. Also note that Wikipedia has a little girl page (a redirect) and that TheFreeDictionary defines little girl (but not with a good definition, in my opinion). Lmaltier 17:59, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

What does “set phrase” or “more common nowadays than” have anything to do with inclusion? CFI doesn't include phrases that surpass some frequency of occurrence. If you want to use this as a criterion, then propose adding it to CFI.

And attributive use justifies the inclusion of proper names, not just any phrases. Little boy pants (119 Google Books hits) doesn't make this phrase an more dictionary-worthy than 40-year history (743 hits) invites inclusion of 40-year or 40 years.

Misquoting CFI is just grasping at straws. Let's include terms if they actually meet the guidelines, not just because we really, really want to. —Michael Z. 2009-06-06 15:01 z

Delete, not idiomatic, not a set phrase as Lmaltier says because animals can be little too. Not little dog because that's a puppy (usually) but with other animals like little gorilla, little tiger use exactly the same meaning of "little". However unless there are not more comments for a week, I think this is a no consensus. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Kept as no consensus, but little girl hasn't been restored yet. Mglovesfun (talk) 06:59, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Deletion debate (2)

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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See #little girl, strong delete as purely sum of parts. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Delete and move translations to boykin. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 13:47, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Delete. Abstain. —Ruakh_TALK 18:56, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Keep: see above (litte girl). Lmaltier 19:00, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Delete this preposterous entry. DCDuring TALK 22:00, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Delete. I just don't see in what way this is a set phrase. —Internoob (Disc.•Cont.) 01:05, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Keep "I kicked the little boy" can not ever mean a boy who was not tall; this is a set phrase meaning young male child; there are often no contextual indicators to differentiate between "young" and "not big", but this can only mean the former. Conrad.Irwin 01:20, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The general rule with boys is that the small ones are also the young ones, hence no need to differentiate. —Internoob (Disc.•Cont.) 23:06, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Conrad, you're saying a boy that is of a small size is not called a little boy? Mglovesfun (talk) 23:08, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Historical comment. Just linking fyi to old discussions from 2008 and 2009. There's also a current re-nomination of little girl for deletion, here at RFD.​—msh210℠ 17:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Delete. SoP, per previous discussions and per current little girl discussion.​—msh210℠ 17:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Keep per #little girl. --Dan Polansky 22:38, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

• Kept per little girl --Rising Sun talk? contributions 22:43, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Deletion debate (3)

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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little boy, little girl, little child, little kid

Sum-of-parts. 2602:306:3653:8920:F14D:7716:1583:E124 00:58, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, I guess little boy should be kept as there is a sense that is not SOP. The others should go. 2602:306:3653:8920:F14D:7716:1583:E124 00:59, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Delete except little boy which is a prime candidate for {{&lit}}. What's the point of having the relevant sense of little and then allowing every possible combination shouldn't we either delete these or delete the relevant sense at little? Renard Migrant (talk) 13:39, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Delete little kid and little child. Abstain on the other two. I think little girl was discussed before. Equinox ◑ 15:07, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Delete See prior 3 RfD discussions at Talk:little_girl. DCDuring TALK 20:04, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Delete little child, little kid; keep little boy and little girl but convert literal senses to {{&lit}} - it's misleading to suggest that it means anything more than "little" + "girl" (the 10 years old thing is v. spurious) but as long as there are non-literal senses, we need something. Smurrayinchester (talk) 20:11, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Keep all. The relevant sense of little is not really used before any nouns other than these four, at least as far as I know. Note that these combinations nearly always refer to age, not size. Unlike, say, little person which refers to size. Shoof (talk) 20:44, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

What about someone's little brother, sister, nephew, niece, or cousin? Seems pretty generic really. Equinox ◑ 21:02, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Talk:little Hitler is a deleted entry I remember, BTW. Equinox ◑ 21:02, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Delete, or {{&lit}}-ify if some senses are idiomatic, per Smurrayinchester. - -sche (discuss) 05:09, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

• Keep little boy (see also previous RFD at Talk:little boy), little girl (see also previous RFD at Talk:little girl). --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:05, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Keep little boy and little girl per previous RFD discussions and as translation targets. There could be lemmings as well. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:08, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Keep little boy and little girl — little girl does not literally mean a girl who is particularly little (compared to other girls). Used in phrases like "little girl's room". Delete little child and little kid. —Pengo (talk) 14:19, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

• Keep all Purplebackpack89 18:34, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Kept as to little boy and little girl; deleted as to little child and little kid. bd2412 T 16:05, 16 December 2015 (UTC)