Talk:laowai

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Deleted 06:55 on 14 September 2007 by Connel MacKenzie with the summary "(--explanation of deletion--)". — LlywelynII 15:00, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Usage

This is a low level slur on the order of cracker, but it's still a slur. The polite term is waiguoren, and English usage among expats deliberately embraces/reclaims the term, usually with self-depreciating humor.

It's listed with caveat on List of ethnic slurs (edit: prior to Mx. Granger's removing it xD by misrepresenting the provided source), previously had the note here that it's a slur, and pops up on Chinese StackExchange with the note that it's vulgar.

@Mx. Granger Not sure where the idea that it's an entirely neutral term came from, but kindly provide any sources disputing the above, already mentioned in the edit summaries. — LlywelynII 15:00, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

In Chinese context it is def not a slur. But since this word is list in English, I guess you should verify with other English speakers. Chihunglu83 (talk) 15:02, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, at least that's a 2nd opinion for me to defer to, albeit still mistaken (the polite and official term ain't laowai, however neutral some Chinese may consider their own racial distinctions) and missing any source. — LlywelynII 15:06, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Mx. Granger similarly misrepresented the SE link above as neutral (CTRL+F for 'vulgar') but here's a second thread of theirs, similarly detailing that it isn't the most hostile term available but does not appear in friendly or well-meaning contexts. — LlywelynII 15:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Here's an example of its use in a friendly, well-meaning context: the students are supposed to look for foreigners to have a talk in English, as an assignment, but they don't really know where and how they can do that. One day, Xiao Zhang [the cleaner at the hotel], overheard that the students were worrying about where they could find a laowai [foreigner] to talk with. She immediately pointed out, our hotel owner is a laowai! All the students then came downstairs to talk to me. I found that with a Google Books search, and more examples are available with a search for "a laowai" in quotation marks. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:23, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Re: the first StackExchange thread, I am not sure if they meant vulgar in the sense of "obscene" or "colloquial". The word is certainly informal in Chinese, but I don't think it's obscene. Neither of the StackExchange threads seem to call it a slur. The first answer on the second thread says "Laowai is neither positive nor negative." —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:27, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi LlywelynII, thanks for starting this discussion. I removed laowai from w:List of ethnic slurs a few minutes ago, because the source that was cited there (Who is a Laowai? Chinese Interpretations of Laowai as a Referring Expression for Non-Chinese) did not support the claim that it was a slur (that source actually says that it has a neutral to slightly positive connotation in Chinese). The StackExchange page does not seem to call it a slur either.

In any case, this entry is for the English word, so the claim you've added is that the word laowai is a slur in English (not in Chinese). As a native English speaker, I do not think it's a slur in English, and from a quick search for English-language uses on Google Books, the way it is used does not seem to support the idea that it's a slur. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:12, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

and to be honest I don't understand where the slur stems from? because there is lao as in 老師？ Is this just some misunderstanding? It's colloquial/humorous but defining as an ethnic slur is just too much in my opinion. Chihunglu83 (talk) 15:18, 8 January 2025 (UTC)