Talk:horned
Add topicLatest comment: 5 years ago by Kiwima in topic RFV discussion: February–April 2019
The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
Rfv-sense "Having horns of a different colour to that of the body" Redbone C (talk) 06:28, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- This is a heraldic term, as in "a ram's head argent, horned or et azur". It seems hardly distinct from the other sense ("having horns") though. Equinox ◑ 15:11, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- It appears at William Dwight Whitney, Benjamin E[li] Smith, editors (1911), “horned”, in The Century Dictionary […], New York, N.Y.: The Century Co., →OCLC., with the distinct 'tincture' qualification. DCDuring (talk) 15:41, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's trivial to cite, but seems hardly distinct, as Equinox says (although if it's deleted, one of the quotes/usexes should be of heraldic use). Still, if other dictionaries have it, I don't see a problem with it. Maybe it could be a subsense. - -sche (discuss) 15:49, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- It is used in the stylized (Translingual?) language of heraldry, apparently often (usually?) followed by one of the heraldic color words or abbreviations thereof. Here are some cites with the color immediately following. DCDuring (talk) 16:02, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- It looks to me that, when used without a following color word (ie, the color of the horn being "natural"), the definition is indeed the same as the most basic definition of horned. DCDuring (talk) 16:10, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- It is used in the stylized (Translingual?) language of heraldry, apparently often (usually?) followed by one of the heraldic color words or abbreviations thereof. Here are some cites with the color immediately following. DCDuring (talk) 16:02, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's trivial to cite, but seems hardly distinct, as Equinox says (although if it's deleted, one of the quotes/usexes should be of heraldic use). Still, if other dictionaries have it, I don't see a problem with it. Maybe it could be a subsense. - -sche (discuss) 15:49, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Saying something is "horned argent" seems rather SoP to me, akin to a goat being "white-horned" etc. The backwards word order is unusual (but normal in heraldry) but it still just means "having ___ horns". Equinox ◑ 16:17, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- If it were part of normal, current English grammar, I'd agree, but this involves words that are obsolete and grammar that is borrowed from French. The color word associated with horned may also be separated by other nouns naming heraldic features to which the color word applies. If you know the peculiar vocabulary and grammar of heraldry, it's perfectly natural, but what about first encounter? Should you have to go to WP? DCDuring (talk) 16:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- This could be handled by a usage note rather than a definition. Redbone C (talk) 08:00, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- If it were part of normal, current English grammar, I'd agree, but this involves words that are obsolete and grammar that is borrowed from French. The color word associated with horned may also be separated by other nouns naming heraldic features to which the color word applies. If you know the peculiar vocabulary and grammar of heraldry, it's perfectly natural, but what about first encounter? Should you have to go to WP? DCDuring (talk) 16:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Saying something is "horned argent" seems rather SoP to me, akin to a goat being "white-horned" etc. The backwards word order is unusual (but normal in heraldry) but it still just means "having ___ horns". Equinox ◑ 16:17, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
RFV-resolved. Converted to a usage note. Kiwima (talk) 21:01, 12 April 2019 (UTC)