Talk:dussack
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Rfv-sense: "A wooden version of the weapon used for practice." Moved from RFD. Seeking to find out if there is e.g. 'modern dussack fighting' where the dussacks are customarily not the real weapons, in a way that would make this idiomatic. At least for my part, I'm not seeking examples of dussack refering to the item regardless of material in a way that encompasses both the 'real' metal ones and leather or wood training ones (like in this cite), nor anything like "my three-year-old was hard at work building a castle in his room" (where it's a lego castle), as IMO neither type of cite makes dussack or castle mean "a crenellated structure made of legos", "1. a wooden object in the shape of a dussack" & "2. a leather object in the shape of a dussack" & "3. a plastic object in the shape of a dussack" etc, like we don't have a definition at pipe for "a painting of a pipe". - -sche (discuss) 17:28, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
RFD discussion:
Rfd-sense: "A wooden version of the weapon used for practice."
(A) I can find practice dussacks made of other things, like leather or dull metal, and toy dussacks made of things like plastic, and (B) it's trivial to find wooden or plastic (etc.) versions of any sword, knife, gun, horse, soldier, etc, and I think we can all agree we don't want a separate sense at gun, knife, etc for "a wooden or plastic version of this weapon, as a toy or prop". - -sche (discuss) 19:33, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Never heard of it, but if there is modern dussack fighting where "dussack" would not refer to the real weapon, it should possibly have a sense, or text could be very misleading (you'd think the people in this sport were fighting with real, dangerous weapons). I'm slightly surprised lightsaber only has the sci-fi sense and not the modern toy/prop that is so often seen. This is not IMO the same as a sense for (say) ship as "a model of a ship". Compare sense 2 of catgirl (= a girl in a catgirl costume, not an actual catgirl). Equinox ◑ 09:40, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
- That's a good point, and I almost agree. (I did consider listing this at RFV instead to seek such cites, but figured someone would just add cites where it refers to a wood one without regard for whether they restrict it to only wood, which wouldn't help. I couldn't find cites where it's restricted to wood in my search, so I listed it here.) My reservation about that approach is: it's common for (metal-)sword-sellers to sell wooden or rattan training versions of all kinds of swords — shortswords, gladii, sabres, katanas, dussacks, jians; peruse google:buy wooden sword for training — and there are groups like the SCA that do fight with "swords", "gladii", "axes", "spears" etc which are required (for safety) to be made out of rattan and duct tape rather than metal ... but because the sellers all also sell, and the Scadians are also familiar with, "real" metal gladii, axes, spears etc, I'm not sure whether we really want to analyse that as creating separate senses of sword, gladius, axe, dagger, spear, etc., since it's a "productive"/open-ended process (someone discovers a new historical melee weapon → you can make a rattan version of it). - -sche (discuss) 14:56, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
- Also maybe comparable: the sense of poppy referring to the artificial poppy flower worn to commemorate those who died in war. Equinox ◑ 14:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- As kids a lot of us played with toy versions of all sorts of weapons. I think using the poppy analogy, this sense of dussack would be worth keeping if there is a sport or at least a tradition based around specifically using wooden dussacks to fight in the present day. —Soap— 14:32, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Also maybe comparable: the sense of poppy referring to the artificial poppy flower worn to commemorate those who died in war. Equinox ◑ 14:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- That's a good point, and I almost agree. (I did consider listing this at RFV instead to seek such cites, but figured someone would just add cites where it refers to a wood one without regard for whether they restrict it to only wood, which wouldn't help. I couldn't find cites where it's restricted to wood in my search, so I listed it here.) My reservation about that approach is: it's common for (metal-)sword-sellers to sell wooden or rattan training versions of all kinds of swords — shortswords, gladii, sabres, katanas, dussacks, jians; peruse google:buy wooden sword for training — and there are groups like the SCA that do fight with "swords", "gladii", "axes", "spears" etc which are required (for safety) to be made out of rattan and duct tape rather than metal ... but because the sellers all also sell, and the Scadians are also familiar with, "real" metal gladii, axes, spears etc, I'm not sure whether we really want to analyse that as creating separate senses of sword, gladius, axe, dagger, spear, etc., since it's a "productive"/open-ended process (someone discovers a new historical melee weapon → you can make a rattan version of it). - -sche (discuss) 14:56, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
- RFV/RFD failed P. Sovjunk (talk) 16:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)