Talk:battle

Deletion debate

Latest comment: 11 years ago13 comments9 people in discussion

The following information has failed Wiktionary's deletion process.

It should not be re-entered without careful consideration.

rfd-redundant: "A patient's struggle with a long-term, potentially deadly illness, such as cancer". This is just the struggle sense in a specific context. Overly specific for my liking too, as you can battle any illness whether potentially fatal or not, or battle against injuries. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

Delete per nomination. You can have a battle with cancer, a battle with a cold, a battle with an injury, a battle with your conscience, a battle with your hair, a battle with your anxiety, and so on. These are all captured by the sense “struggle”. —Caesura ^(t) 15:28, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Delete per nomination. — Ungoliant ^(Falai) 15:55, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Delete, and move the 2012 citation under either 1 or 2. Leasnam (talk) 16:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Keep or Move. I thought about creating lose one's battle instead; can you lose your battle with a cold or an injury? I think you can only lose your battle with a fatal illness. This is an idiom not directly translatable into all languages that have sense #1 or sense #2. If you view it as the same as #1 or #2 you might as well delete #2 and just leave #1. As well as which, someone need not necessarily be "struggling"; maybe they are actively taking drugs or trying treatments or consulting doctors, but maybe they are just lying in bed hoping they get better. One might say their body is struggling, but again that's at one remove from #2. Jnestorius (talk) 22:03, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Though I see someone changed my definition to "specifically, A patient's struggle..." which framed it nicely for a delete. I've changed this to "A patient's suffering from ..." as it's not necessarily a struggle. Jnestorius (talk) 22:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

I honestly think you've made the definition worse, it probably qualifies for speedy deletion now for being just plain wrong, as it does refer to the struggle not the suffering. I will therefore revert to the correct (but in my view redundant) definition. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

I think you're mistaken. Regardless of the level of abstraction/metaphor, a battle is something you fight, and fighting is inherently active, not passive. Although you could quibble about whether "struggling" is the best word, it's got to be some synonym that involves active opposition. As for losing a battle with a cold, if I feel like I might be coming down with a cold, I do everything I can to help my immune system so I can fight it off. In that sense, ending up with a full-blown cold is indeed losing a battle with the cold. Any outcome which you've unsuccessfully tried to avoid can be metaphorically described as having lost your battle with that which caused the outcome. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

For example "he lost his battle with cancer" doesn't mean "he lost his suffering against cancer". Mglovesfun (talk) 09:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

A battle with a cold or injury is still a battle between you and the illness/trauma. Even if "you" are not actively participating, your immune system still is, and your immune system is part of you therefore "you" are struggling with the other combatant. If a person is in a coma and suffering from cold, is he/she struggling with illness? I'd say yes. Delete --BiblbroX дискашн 10:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

Delete per nom.--Dmol (talk) 22:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

Keep. This term is commonly associated with these types of struggles, moreso than battles with hair. Hardly a contest as the cancer also loses in the end. Reword with the angle of a personal struggle, using a terminal illness as a "such as". Specifically already marks it as a subsense. DAVilla 00:14, 18 August 2012 (UTC)Reply

Deleted. Kept the citation under the struggle sense. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:41, 28 January 2013 (UTC)Reply