Talk:aeglefinus

RFV discussion: April 2017–February 2020

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aeglefinus

RFV for the Latin adjective / Translingual taxonomic epithet. It's defined as “Used as a specific epithet; shining, gleaming.”, but I don't see on what usage that definition is based. The etymology given reads “From Ancient Greek αἴγλη (aíglē, “sunlight, gleam”), possibly from an Epic Greek genitive and dative form, or possibly via Latin Aegle (“any of three mythological figures”)”, but that doesn't explain the -fīnus element. Compare Aeglefinus, which I think derives from the French églefin (“haddock”), which appears to be attested since circa 1300 as the Middle French egreffin. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 22:19, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

I can't find what source I might have used for the etymology. I fear there may not have been one. The derivation that Robert shows for églefin does not include any Greek or Latin. DCDuring (talk) 22:32, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

The meaning is likely based on the presumed etymology, and the "usage" likely is the one in taxonomic names.

• David H. McNicoll, Dictionary of Natural History Terms with their derivations, including the various orders, genera, and species, London, 1863, page 9 gives this etymology: "Ægle'finus (Ichth.) αἰγλοφανής [aiglophanḗs], brilliant, lustrous". It contains a change of ο to e and of a to e - and the only explanation for that that I can think of is English mispronunciation or French or English deformation. Alternatively, the given etymology could be incorrect.
• Dictionaries and other books mention French aiglefin, aigrefin, églefin (by Frenchies) or eglefin (by non-Frenchies or in caps as EGLEFIN) and English eglefinus as names for haddock. The origin is once said to be Dutch (14th century, so likely Middle Dutch) eschlevis which is said to literally mean shell-fish (from Why is an Apple a Pomme? A Journey with Words by Denis Dunstone, 2014, e-books version at books.google, which also mentions Spanish eglefino, Portuguese eglefim, Italian eglefino). A German book mentioned a Dutch schelvis (which looks more like Schellfisch) and says there was a "Umbildung". In another context a French aigle fin with the meaning "clever person" (schlauer Mensch) and the literal meaning "fine eagle" (feiner Adler) was mentioned.
  So maybe the etymology is like this: some Dutch word, likely for the haddock -> French aiglefin, aigrefin, églefin (French caps, maybe in older typography, EGLEFIN), maybe by folketymological deforming of the Dutch to resemble aigle fin and then maybe to deform it as it's no eagle (aigle) -> maybe English or some other European language -> Translingual aeglefinus. Maybe one can find more and better references for this.

BTW: The long e (Wiktionary: "aeglēfīnus") is likely from one of the two presumed etymologies. So if the etymology is a guess, the length likely is too, and if it is a guess, then it shouldn't be "aeglēfīnus" without any note.

BTW 2: By connecting aeglefinus with the French noun aiglefin, aigrefin, églefin, aeglefinus could be a noun too (in taxonomics used in apposition), so it's almost like an alternative form of Aeglefinus except that modern taxonomic uses capitalisation in a special way.

-84.161.35.194 23:39, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

In the sense "haddock", it's obviously from the French or some close relative thereof and is a noun. The waspfish, however, is in a different order, so aeglefinus may be an adjective in Neocentropogon aeglefinus. If so, it should be listed as two etymologies. PierreAbbat (talk) 21:45, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

• According to etyfish.org "apparently a latinization of “Egrefin” and “Eglefin,” its vernacular names in France and England, respectively, according to Pierre Belon, De aquatilibus (1553)" DCDuring (talk) 01:44, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

I've deleted the etymology (quoted above for reference) and removed the disputed definition, but left it defined as "used in specific epithets", since it has three derived terms / examples proving that. Resolved? - -sche (discuss) 18:13, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

I've added other defined terms, all taxonomic names for haddock. I made the etymology "cognate with French églefin". The source(s) of the églefin and the specific epithet may not be discoverable, but the fact of their relationship is obvious. DCDuring (talk) 21:16, 12 February 2020 (UTC)