Talk:Sangley
Add topicLatest comment: 1 year ago by Mar vin kaiser in topic Confused
Etymology
[edit]@Mlgc1998 So I see your edits here, just wondering about the inclusion of "人" in the etymology, where that comes from. Thanks. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 12:48, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser When I edited it to put 常來, I found that there was already an existing page created by someone else at 常來人, so I put that instead. Mlgc1998 (talk) 12:58, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: I see. Tbh, his edits are doubtful. How about 生理 being short for 生理人? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:05, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser can't fully remember but since I edited that on the same time, I must've also checked if there was an equivalent 人 form for 生理 which I later did find and must've added. Around those times, I somewhat remember that someone gave me a bunch of Tulay Fortnightly magazines and there was an article there by Go Bon Juan called "Gems of History: Sangley", which he talked about trying to find the etymology of the word too and listed "three versions of the interpretation on the word sangley", 1st was 商旅, 2nd was 生理, then 3rd was 常來. The column article can be found here, page 5. Afaik, there was also a video in youtube and facebook from Bahay Tsinoy where Ms. Meah talks to Janeena Chan for ChinoyTV where she says Sangley raw is from "sanglai" (送來?) as she walks in front of that 來常 Sangley illustration from the Boxer Codex, then the video editors transition to put "生理" as the characters lol. I think it was this video. Mlgc1998 (talk) 14:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: By the way, my knowledge of Spanish tells me nationalities, people groups, etc. are all not capitalized. Was your creation of the Spanish entry based on a specific attestation in Spanish? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 08:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser yes, page 45 of Los filipinismos y otras palabras de Filipinas (1997) Mlgc1998 (talk) 08:48, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: Nice. However, the problem here is that all the entry words are capitalized, so it's ambiguous whether it's actual word is capitalized or not. As you can see in the official RAE dictionary, it should be small letters:https://dle.rae.es/sangley?m=form. That's how Spanish writes nationalities and people groups. They never do it like in English. So "Sangley" would not exist in Spanish, but "sangley" would. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 08:52, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser ok, if the RAE recommends the non-capitalized form as the standard one, we can swap the entries of sangley and Sangley. I searched through Google Books and the capitalized form exists in some amount of Spanish-language books, so that one could be the alternative form. Mlgc1998 (talk) 09:00, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: It seems like the other words for nationalities were sometimes capitalized hundreds of years ago, like Franceses or Alemanes. But today it has been standardized that all of them are non-capitalized. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:34, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser ok, if the RAE recommends the non-capitalized form as the standard one, we can swap the entries of sangley and Sangley. I searched through Google Books and the capitalized form exists in some amount of Spanish-language books, so that one could be the alternative form. Mlgc1998 (talk) 09:00, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: Nice. However, the problem here is that all the entry words are capitalized, so it's ambiguous whether it's actual word is capitalized or not. As you can see in the official RAE dictionary, it should be small letters:https://dle.rae.es/sangley?m=form. That's how Spanish writes nationalities and people groups. They never do it like in English. So "Sangley" would not exist in Spanish, but "sangley" would. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 08:52, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser yes, page 45 of Los filipinismos y otras palabras de Filipinas (1997) Mlgc1998 (talk) 08:48, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: By the way, my knowledge of Spanish tells me nationalities, people groups, etc. are all not capitalized. Was your creation of the Spanish entry based on a specific attestation in Spanish? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 08:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser can't fully remember but since I edited that on the same time, I must've also checked if there was an equivalent 人 form for 生理 which I later did find and must've added. Around those times, I somewhat remember that someone gave me a bunch of Tulay Fortnightly magazines and there was an article there by Go Bon Juan called "Gems of History: Sangley", which he talked about trying to find the etymology of the word too and listed "three versions of the interpretation on the word sangley", 1st was 商旅, 2nd was 生理, then 3rd was 常來. The column article can be found here, page 5. Afaik, there was also a video in youtube and facebook from Bahay Tsinoy where Ms. Meah talks to Janeena Chan for ChinoyTV where she says Sangley raw is from "sanglai" (送來?) as she walks in front of that 來常 Sangley illustration from the Boxer Codex, then the video editors transition to put "生理" as the characters lol. I think it was this video. Mlgc1998 (talk) 14:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: I see. Tbh, his edits are doubtful. How about 生理 being short for 生理人? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:05, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Confused
[edit]Can Sangley and Sanglay be just one entry, They're circling each other to be each other's alternative forms. @Mlgc1998 Ysrael214 (talk) 14:25, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Ysrael214 eh, looking at the history, it seems I must've made the Tagalog entry here in Sangley last Nov 2019, but then @Mar vin kaiser added the Tagalog entry in Sanglay last Feb 2022. I'm guessing it has something to do with the other definitions written there and if it has something to do with Kumintang, Batangas. Mlgc1998 (talk) 20:22, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Ysrael214: Looking at it now, it seems like "Sanglay" is always defined in dictionary as a Chinese merchant, but "Sangley" is only defined as a historical term for an ethnic Chinese. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 07:05, 13 January 2023 (UTC)