Talk:Kastila

Portuguese origin for Malay word probably more likely

The Arabic origin has long a as second syllable. For Filipino readers this could be rendered as "qa-SÁ-ti-la". A bit less similar than "Castéla" to "Kastíla". Myrnamyers (talk) 11:32, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

@Myrnamyers No, no, no. We aren't Spain. Don't look at Old Spanish but Early Modern Spanish where /ʝ/ are used in some dialects. Don't compare the Spain status that the recent "trend" is that <ll> is pronounced /ʝ/. Look at the Philippine status where older words with <ll> are converted to <y> like "kabayo", "sibuyas", "yawe" (found in 1613 Vocabulario de la lengua tagala where Early Modern Spanish pronunciations are used). Modern borrowings like "apelyido", "dolyar", "liyabe", "palyado", "estrelya", "tornilyo", and many more use the <ly> sound. We retained lleismo, and we can't say that <y> sounds is the Modern borrowing one. Ysrael214 (talk) 08:46, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

@Myrnamyers Heck we even use the "ly" sounds for names at present like "Dennis Trillo" (trilyo) and "Daniel Padilla" (padilya). We really can't say that <ll> use the <y> sound right now. Ysrael214 (talk) 08:59, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

@Myrnamyers Other words I found on Vocabulario de la lengua tagala 1613 (most of which that don't exist anymore since they're replaced by the <ly> pronunciation) that exhibit Early Modern Spanish <ll> to <y> which likely exhibits yeismo before include:

• calatiyo (kalatiyo) = cuartillo = Modern would be kuwartilyo
• campania (kampaniya) = campanilla = Modern would be kampanilya
• coyo (kuyo) = cuello = Modern would be kuwelyo
• donsiya (dunsíya) = donçella = Modern would be donselya
• galagantiya = gargantilla = Modern would be gargantilya
• lariyo = ladrillo = Modern would be ladrilyo, (some dictionaries contain laryo as an early borrowing as well)
• morsias (mursiyas) = morcillas = Modern would be morsilyas
• síya = silla/ensillar = Modern would be silya

Recording here so that I can create these entries here as well later on. If what you said is true that early Spanish loanwords would be <ly>, then I should have gotten galagantilya in the 17th century dictionary for example but I got the opposite of what was expected. And the <ly> sounds appear more on recent dictionaries.

I'm guessing you were thinking that in Spain, it was /ʎ/ before and it's /ʝ/ now, therefore the same must be true in the Philippines. Well let's look at the data. Thus, your claim that it's "baligtad" is wrong.

Although there is this word salauilis (salawilis) from zaragüelles in SB 1613, but not pronounced the expected "salawiyis" nor "salawilyis". Ysrael214 (talk) 11:57, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

@Myrnamyers By the way, for Kastila/Kastela any is fine (not exactly as immaculate as you think, unless you are Malay then fine I'll accept that), you can find "Perang Kastela" in Google Books as well although Kastela is the main entry in Wilkinson's Malay dictionary.

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-60272771/view?partId=nla.obj-435942180#page/n524/mode/1up/search/Kastela Ysrael214 (talk) 12:06, 24 February 2023 (UTC)