Talk:Brennschluss

Tea room discussion

Note: the below discussion was moved from the Wiktionary:Tea room.

As an English word, ought this not be spelled with a lower case 'b'? Compare with Weltanschauung/weltanschauung. __meco 10:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• When I entered this, I wasn't sure whether it should be English at all. Except that the quote I had was from a novel in English, in which the word has some importance (always used with a capital B). And from there it has become a term used sometimes in various bits of Pychonalia. Maybe it should still be a German section though, I'm not sure. Ƿidsiþ 10:48, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
  • No, it should not be - the German section is at Brennschluß. Please, preserve the capitalisation, this is the sound orthography for German nouns and for nouns derived from German - cf. Schadenfreude. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 14:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Brennschluß is the old orthography. It should not be used anymore. -- Prince Kassad 15:21, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Well, when I was learning German, it was not standard (yet), so you probably understand my reluctance to embrace this Helvetisation/Verschweizerung of German orthography. But it is not up to Bulgarian learners to decide, if you insist, then ich bin mit meinem Latein am Ende. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 15:32, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
        • My German is too not so good. However, going by the model of schadenfreude, the English ought to be brennschluss. (Assuming that is, that it is accepted as a loanword.) And if you go by the example of Schluß, the preferred German would be Brennschluss. But whoever said a dictionary had to be consistent? :) Pingku 16:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
          • Niemals habe ich behauptet, daß mein Deutsch nicht fließend ist und bin bestimmt nicht im Begriff, mich einer solchen Unterschätzung zu unterziehen./Never did I claim that my German was not fluent and do not intend to inflict on myself such an underæstimation. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 17:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
            • Entschuldigung. Offending word striked. Pingku 17:59, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
              • Macht nichts :) The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 18:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
    • You are citing the German entry at Schadenfreude. The relevant entry would be schadenfreude, which is the English entry. Add to that weltanschauung as I initially presented and a rather clear pattern emerges which dictates that the English entry for the word we are discussing should be at brennschluss. __meco 12:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Yes, but it needs to be established that brennschluss is properly a loanword in English. The Pynchon reference does not do this, as it emphasises that it is a German word (including capitalisation). The Wikipedia page mentions a Heinlein novel, but appears to overhype its usage there. Wikipedia also refers to a NASA glossary, which includes brennschluss, uncapitalised. Pingku 16:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
        •  
          • "The brennschluss time is, arguably, one of the main controlling parameters on flame dynamics — if the brennschluss time is very short […]" — →ISBN pp. 95
          • "Notice how the velocity tails off in the interfals between the ignition of the various steps. Brenschlusss at 25½ seconds." — Rockets, Missiles, and Space Travel, Willy Ley, Viking Press, 1957. pp. 223
          • "In rocketry, Brennschluss has two implications, but the same basic meaning. The first implies that the driving fuels are all expended […]" — Air Pictorial and Air Reserve Gazette, Rolls House, 1951.
        • On the matter of loaning, particularly, this quotation seems particularly apt:
          • "The German language has also contributed such words as blitz, brennschluss, immelmann, lufbery, and strafe. For the most part, borrowing from foreign aviation terminology occurred prior to World War II." — The Special Vocabulary of the United States Air Force, George Lloyd Rule, Stanford University, 1957.
        • So, are you prepared to accept running English prose and to take the word of an 1957 M.A. thesis? ☺ Uncle G 00:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
          • • Looks fine to me. With the (especially lower case) cites it appears verified in a technical/jargon (aeronautics?) sense. The NASA ref might confirm it is still current. Pingku 16:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

To define brennschluss as "[t]he moment in the trajectory of a rocket when the fuel burns out, after which it continues with its own momentum for some distance and then begins to succumb to gravity" suggests three distinct phases of a rocket's flight: (1) thrust-dominated, (2) momentum-dominated, and (3) gravity-dominated. From a physical standpoint, this is incorrect. While thrust is usually applied only during the initial stages, momentum and gravity are relevant throughout a rocket's trajectory. Momentum carries the rocket forward at every instant of its flight. Moreover, a rocket does not "succumb to gravity" (eg, after reaching apogee); from a Newtonian point of view, gravity is constantly changing the rocket's momentum.

I suggest defining "brennschluss" as the instant when a rocket transitions from powered to unpowered flight. During the powered phase, a rocket accelerates under its own thrust; subsequently, it follows an essentially ballistic trajectory, possibly modified by aerodynamic forces.

72.235.12.12 06:13, 26 November 2011 (UTC) (Joshua E. Barnes, Honolulu, Hawaii)