Talk:Acadian epoch

RFD discussion: December 2015–July 2016

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Acadian epoch

Not sure about this one, but do we really want entries like this rather than just the entry at Acadian? It certainly goes against our preëxisting standards; e.g. we have Jurassic but not Jurassic period, Phanerozoic but not Phanerozoic eon. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 22:37, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I'd happily delete but I think we'd have to improve the definitions at Acadian to cover that it's an epoch from blah to blah. Easily done though. Reminds me a bit of English language and the like where the meaning is entirely predictable provided English has enough detail. Renard Migrant (talk) 23:11, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

See User:DCDuring/Geology for a fairly comprehensive table from WP with the data required for pretty good definitions and many etymologies. See this page at the geowhen database for Acadian. The geowhen database is more complete than the WP table and could be imported and formatted for use as a source for entries. DCDuring TALK 23:36, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't care whether we keep Acadian epoch, but we need a good entry for Acadian. DCDuring TALK 23:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

• I improved the entry for Acadian, and I now think we should definitely delete this. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 00:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

  Do you think it should be a redirect? DCDuring TALK 01:38, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it would be a helpful redirect as a search would otherwise suggest Acadian as the first result. So no. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

The redirect could be to a senseid. DCDuring TALK 14:47, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

• I have created Middle Cambrian (epoch), of which Acadian (epoch) is a synonym. The boundaries of such geological/stratigraphic periods have more stability when defined by the fossils found than by time-period intervals, though the time periods allow for more convenient comparison and use. DCDuring TALK 23:23, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
• Keep per talk:free variable and Talk:nominative case reasoning; keep red dwarf, prime number, algebraic number, algebraic integer, bound variable, etc.. The sense of Acadian that would make this a sum of parts is "Of or pertaining to the Acadian epoch". --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:30, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

  I hope you'll be adding raspberry bush, blueberry bush, cypress tree, yew bush (to go with oak tree (a previous item you argued for using a parallel argument). (What about blueberry leaf, blueberry flower, blueberry inflorescence, blueberry fruit, blueberry twig, blueberry sapling, blue berry seed, blueberry canker, blueberry blight, etc while we are at it?) There should also be at least one two-word entry for each of the one-word proper nouns that name geological time periods and stratigraphic layers. Perhaps also entries such as Acadian stage and Acadian substage. I'll try to provide substantive entries for you to supplement in this way. Perhaps a bot could speed the process, as little thought or knowledge is required. DCDuring TALK 19:06, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

  Acadian epoch is not <noun> <noun>, it is <adjective> <noun>. The noun Acadian is a result of shortening of Acadian epoch, to the best of my estimation. Therefore, raspberry bush, blueberry bush, cypress tree, etc. are not analogues of Acadian epoch. As for Talk:oak tree, I said 'Keep, as the space-free form "oaktree" is citable', which is per WT:COALMINE, a different argument. --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:54, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

  Later: This seems to be of the pattern the Atlantic Ocean - the Atlantic, the Caribbean Sea - the Caribbean, but also Paleolithic period (redlink) - Paleolithic. The main OneLook dictionaries do not have "Paleolithic period" and "Acadian epoch" - “Paleolithic period”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Acadian epoch”, in OneLook Dictionary Search.; they have Paleolithic and Acadian - “Paleolithic”, in OneLook Dictionary Search., “Acadian”, in OneLook Dictionary Search.. By contrast, "Atlantic Ocean" is in AHD[1], Collins[2], and Merriam-Webster[3]. "Atlantic Ocean" is written with capitcal "o", suggestive of its proper-namehood.

  About the option of having a hard redirect from Acadian epoch to Acadian: the hard redirect has inferior usability: whereas on Acadian epoch the reader immediately lands on the definition sought, in Acadian it is the last definition in the proper noun section, and the entry starts with the Adjective section. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:08, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

  Re: "I'll try to provide substantive entries for you to supplement in this way. Perhaps a bot could speed the process, as little thought or knowledge is required": You mean like a bot for edits like diff? --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

  If I could trust a bot to gender those birds, I would try to recruit one. DCDuring TALK 18:45, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

• Delete per Μετάknowledge.​—msh210℠ (talk) 21:13, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
• Delete per Metaknowledge or redirect per DCDuring. IMO the red dwarf / free variable test is not met / applicable here, since in those cases both elements have to be present for the meaning to be imparted, even if the order is changed (to "the variable is free", etc). As Dan points out on Talk:free variable, a person could try to make "red dwarf" SOP by adding "Of a dwarf star, small and relatively cool [and] of the main sequence" to [[red]], but "red" only has that meaning when "dwarf" is present. Here, however, one can say "These fossils date to the Acadian." or "This type of plant was especially common in the Acadian." and never use the word "epoch"; the meaning is present in "Acadian" alone. (Also, a few of the hits for "Acadian period" show that "epoch" isn't the only time-word that can collocate with "Acadian", although many hits for that phrase are referring to a different, more recent period.) I don't oppose redirecting the various epochs to specific senses of [[Acadian]], etc. - -sche (discuss) 22:56, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
  • @- -sche: As for "These fossils date to the Acadian": the SOP claim has to be made in relation to the adjective Acadian, not the noun; otherwise, I would accept your point. Like, in "Atlantic Ocean", "Atlantic" is an adjective despite the existence of the noun "Atlantic". --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:30, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Deleted. bd2412 T 20:44, 20 July 2016 (UTC)