Talk:隣

Japanese term derivation

@Poketalker, oddly, the verb only appears in texts centuries after the noun. See for instance the KDJ entries at Kotobank for both tonari and tonaru, where tonari appears in the Nihon Shoki of 720, but the earliest we get for tonaru as a verb seems to be an 1163 Japanese translation of the 646 Chinese work, Great Tang Records on the Western Regions. This suggests that tonaru may be a back-formation from tonari.

Also, I'm not sure the East / West variances merit fully separate etym sections. It's not clear how common the Eastern ⟨to₁nari⟩ is (I haven't had time yet to analyze the MYS), and this might just be a reflex of Western ⟨to₂nari⟩. FWIW, analyzing the MYS for to nouns 音, 所/処, and 外, the first one is always ⟨to₂⟩, and the latter two are always ⟨to₁⟩, for both Eastern and Western, as far as I've been able to ferret out. I haven't yet found any cases of a noun to that's commonly spelled with ⟨to₂⟩ in Western but ⟨to₁⟩ in Eastern. I can compile my findings into a table with links if that would be helpful. See also Reconstruction_talk:Proto-Japonic/tonari and User_talk:Eirikr#宿る_(yadoru) for related discussions. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 20:38, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

@Eirikr: to begin, how did the scholars conclude #1738 to be ⟨to₂nari⟩? Clearly have no idea what's going on here, is it due to the reconstructions? Also, here's to share (might be helpful?):

• 1738 (sinagado₂ri Apa ni tugi₁taru adusayumi₁... to₂nari no₂ ki₁mi₁ pa...)
• 3472 (pi₁to₂duma to₂ aze kaso₂ wo ipamu... to₁nari no₂ ki₁nu wo...)

～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 01:52, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Huh. Well, as far as the MYS goes, those two poems are the only ones I can find that use 隣 (tonari) at all, and 3472 is the only one with a man'yōgana spelling -- so, as you note, we have exactly zero evidence in the MYS of ⟨to₂nari⟩. I don't know of any good sources for other ancient texts that use man'yōgana; if you're aware of any, I'd be very appreciative if you could post links. For now, without any such textual evidence for ⟨to₂nari⟩, I'd be inclined to remove all instances of that from our OJP entries. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:13, 21 June 2019 (UTC)