Talk:漁夫の利

Verification of the entry (Hiragana, translation)

• @TAKASUGI Shinji, @Eirikr Hi, I stumbled upon this idiom today, but the translation I found in one dictionary corresponds to the English fishing in troubled waters rather than to winning by default. Furthermore, the Hiragana I discovered was ぎょふのり. The Japanese Wiktionary lists ぎょほのり as well, but nowhere did I find りょうふのり. My intermediate level of Japanese prompts me to desist from editing on my own such an advanced topic as are Japanese idioms, so I would be grateful for your insights regarding this entry. Bogorm converſation 21:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

@Bogorm: The various entries at Kotobank clearly show a reading of ぎょふのり. I am baffled where the ぎょほ reading might come from for 漁夫 (gyofu, “fisherman”); the second kanji character 夫 has no such ho reading described in any source I've consulted so far.

Looking at the JA Wikt entry history, I see that the ぎょほのり reading was added in this edit by ja:利用者:Mtodo back in November 2006. Mtodo appears to be capable of native-level Japanese as seen on their User and User Talk pages, and their contribution history on the JA Wikt and WP is extensive. They also appear to be currently active, so I'll ask them where ぎょほ came from.

Cheers, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:03, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

• Question posted to their Talk page at: ja:利用者・トーク:Mtodo#手助けのお願い：「漁夫の利」の意外な読み. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:23, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

漁(ぎょ)父(ほ)の利(り) (gyoho no ri) → 漁(ぎょ)父(ふ)の利(り) (gyofu no ri) → 漁(ぎょ)夫(ふ)の利(り) (gyofu no ri). There are only three patterns. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 03:17, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

@Eirikr Thanks for your effort and for clarifying the only valid reading (ぎょふのり). I removed the previous incorrect reading added by User:NHSKR in 2016. TAKASUGI Shinji, thank you for the etymological explanation regarding ぎょほ の り. It would be great to provide this entry with an example and the expression which I encountered yesterday is: 漁夫の利を得ようとしている. I tried to rephrase and shorten the sentence (I would rather not copy the original sentence verbatim), but also obscured the perpetrator in it and the time period, so here is what came out: 当国は反日政策を採りつつ、日本を疲弊させて漁夫の利を得ようとしている。(That country is struggling to fish in troubled waters while implementing anti-Japanese policies, in the effort to exhaust Japan.) If it can be considered grammatically valid and sufficiently exemplicative, I would be glad to expand the entry by an example. --Bogorm converſation 11:49, 1 July 2021 (UTC)