Talk:懊嘟嘟
Add topicLatest comment: 6 months ago by Mar vin kaiser in topic PH Hokkien Pronunciation
PH Hokkien Pronunciation
[edit]@Mlgc1998 My dad says the pronunciation here is "àu-tǔ-tǔ". Are you sure that it's "àu-tū-tū" from the people you've asked? Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser I edited this entry before, first checking the resources first and then asked my dad if he recognizes it, he recognized it and said it as well as "àu-tū-tū" (high flat-low flat-falling). I remember I began editing this entry in the first place though, after some people in the groupchat discussed about what it means, but I don't remember if they sent any voice msgs of how they said it exactly. The 嘟嘟 part of this word seems onomatopoeic, so it would be understandable if there are multiple pronunciations for it, just as the multiple pronunciations recorded for Taiwan and Mainland China as well, since native speakers are trying to approximate what was originally an onomatopoeic sound, which can vary on how people originally heard or imagined that supposed original sound was. Mlgc1998 (talk) 18:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: These are ideophonic adjectives, and at least here in PH, it's possible but I'd like to believe that we probably say it the same. Could you ask your dad if he knows "àu-tǔ-tǔ" and he'll say it differently this time? Sometimes my dad is like that, I'll ask him one thing on one day, and on another day, he'll say something different, like the opposite. Old people are like this lol. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 01:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser I can ask him on the weekends, since these days he seems to always be out of town on weekdays due to his work out in the provinces these past months and sometimes doesnt respond in chat online. Mlgc1998 (talk) 02:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser I managed to ask him about it again if he recognized that one and it seems that one /au⁵⁵⁴ tu²² tu²²/ seems similar to the Xiamen pronunciation. He was mad tho and also didn't want to say as well due to the "frowny" negative meaning of it and in relation as well with the other vulgarity insult you asked me about that I asked him too, but I managed to record him say this as well that I can send you. I think he recognized it as well and I got him to say it on record. He was not all too happy with me asking about it tho since he knew the meaning. Mlgc1998 (talk) 16:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: Just to make sure, your dad mainly says this word with a falling tone on the last syllable? Not a mid-flat? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 06:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser That must've been the blurry part I was wondering about before as well that I just thought to just agree with the "àu-tū-tū" pronunciation, because usually a word with multiple syllables being said, you can see in a pitch monitor app that the tone of the syllables usually try to connect with each other, so if it's 55 first in /au/, then it'll quickly go down to 22 by /tu/, then it wouldn't suddenly rise to 41 if it's that low already when its falling but rather like 21 for the last /tu/. Now, I am not sure though on the slight tiny difference there between 22 and 21 when the word is said alone with nothing else coming after. If there are more words being said after, it would naturally sandhi to also 22. Mlgc1998 (talk) 12:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: I've tried using the voice pitch monitor app you're using and it's not really accurate unless you say the word real slow. Can you record your dad, how he says it, and let me hear it? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 06:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser I already sent you last weekend. The pitch monitor app doesnt necessarily show it as straight lines if level tones. flat level tones look more like a zigzag wave to one direction, like in a hearbeat monitor. The level on the chart changes based on the volume it picks up, so to get a reliable baseline, I usually saved up some common words suggested to me before by huigiok and tim, usually two syllable expressions or word where both are meant to have the same tone class, so the first utterance is meant to show the running tone and the last utterance as the standing tone, so for 陽上, I regularly say like lǎu-pě (or any common word I'm used to the sound of how to say it) on the pitch monitor app then i say the word I am testing out to see if they should have the same tones showing on the pitch graph, but since they're small wavy lines, I'm not sure how to distinctly distinguish the difference between 22 to 21 unless there's another sample word with similar tones and if they sound the same. I have a feeling it's also 22 at the end, since it seems the same when they're all running tone when more words come after. Mlgc1998 (talk) 12:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: I see, what your dad said in that recording is "àu-tǔ-tǔ", not "àu-tū-tū", so I'll change it in the entry. The pitch monitor app is not that sensitive kasi. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 16:38, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser I already sent you last weekend. The pitch monitor app doesnt necessarily show it as straight lines if level tones. flat level tones look more like a zigzag wave to one direction, like in a hearbeat monitor. The level on the chart changes based on the volume it picks up, so to get a reliable baseline, I usually saved up some common words suggested to me before by huigiok and tim, usually two syllable expressions or word where both are meant to have the same tone class, so the first utterance is meant to show the running tone and the last utterance as the standing tone, so for 陽上, I regularly say like lǎu-pě (or any common word I'm used to the sound of how to say it) on the pitch monitor app then i say the word I am testing out to see if they should have the same tones showing on the pitch graph, but since they're small wavy lines, I'm not sure how to distinctly distinguish the difference between 22 to 21 unless there's another sample word with similar tones and if they sound the same. I have a feeling it's also 22 at the end, since it seems the same when they're all running tone when more words come after. Mlgc1998 (talk) 12:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: I've tried using the voice pitch monitor app you're using and it's not really accurate unless you say the word real slow. Can you record your dad, how he says it, and let me hear it? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 06:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mar vin kaiser That must've been the blurry part I was wondering about before as well that I just thought to just agree with the "àu-tū-tū" pronunciation, because usually a word with multiple syllables being said, you can see in a pitch monitor app that the tone of the syllables usually try to connect with each other, so if it's 55 first in /au/, then it'll quickly go down to 22 by /tu/, then it wouldn't suddenly rise to 41 if it's that low already when its falling but rather like 21 for the last /tu/. Now, I am not sure though on the slight tiny difference there between 22 and 21 when the word is said alone with nothing else coming after. If there are more words being said after, it would naturally sandhi to also 22. Mlgc1998 (talk) 12:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: Just to make sure, your dad mainly says this word with a falling tone on the last syllable? Not a mid-flat? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 06:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: These are ideophonic adjectives, and at least here in PH, it's possible but I'd like to believe that we probably say it the same. Could you ask your dad if he knows "àu-tǔ-tǔ" and he'll say it differently this time? Sometimes my dad is like that, I'll ask him one thing on one day, and on another day, he'll say something different, like the opposite. Old people are like this lol. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 01:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)