Talk:イン

RFV discussion: June–July 2020

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イン

"inn".

1. エルキントンさんの家の近くのインに泊まって [1] [2] [3]

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 23:01, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

• RFV-kept. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:39, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge The three links are links to the same sentence appearing in multiple "Google Books" pages, not three different cites. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:06, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: Then why would you provide three links with no prose explanation? Cleaning up RFVs in languages I don't speak is already hard enough... In any case, I tried google books:"のイン" "ホテル" and I think that produced enough quotes, but JA editors need to confirm. Also @Eirikr, Cnilep —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 02:13, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

The recurring sentence is "エルキントンさんの家の近くのインに泊まって".

As for your Google Books link, it's definitely producing more results than what I tried for narrowing down "イン", but it's still very mention-y.

• 桐山秀樹, じつは「おもてなし」がなっていない日本のホテル

  — a discussion of Japanese "hotels" and foreign "inns", with "inn" in quotation marks

• 1988年3月号「青函トンネル開通時の時刻表」 時刻表復刻版

  ご予約・お問合せはお近くのイン・予約センター・営業所へ

  For reservations and questions, call your nearest inn · reservation center · business

  — the above being part of an ad for a company named "Tokyu Inn":

  全国にひろがるさわやかホテル東急イン

  country-wide, the refreshing hotel Tokyu Inn

• 木村吾郎, 日本のホテル産業史

  イギリスのイン(inn)の例でいうと

  putting it in terms of English "inns"

• 辻和成, 東急・五島昇の決断

  — discussion of Tokyu Inn

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Honestly, these convince me even more that イン is not a Japanese word. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:35, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Copying over from Suzukaze-c's talk page:

What about the presence of this element in various Japanese company names, like 東横イン, or ホテルルートイン? This book also includes eleven instances of 「真木町イン」; possibly a fictional place and I'm uncertain of the kanji reading, but the book's audience was expected to know what an イン is in this context.

Looking elsewhere, google books:"インに" "宿泊" finds many relevant hits.

It's certainly not the most common Japanese term for an overnight lodging establishment, but it's also pretty well attested. It's even right there in the names of several hotel chains, as included some above. And multiple monolingual Japanese reference works list this term with this sense, as visible at the Kotobank page for イン.

I'm not sure what other verification is needed? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 03:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

東横イン and ホテルルートイン are company names. One can name a company anything, and considering Japan's current fetish for English, borrowing from English is not unexpected. Should we have to resort to using company names as cites?

In addition, the Wikipedia pages for 東横イン and ホテルルートイン describe them both as "business hotel chains". This is in fact what the book by 桐山秀樹 mentioned above discusses: so-called Japanese "business hotels" vs. foreign "inns". "Japanese business hotels are not called anything but 'inns' overseas."

And I might be seeing different Google Books from you. Which quotes look good to you? I honestly don't see any.

The reference works are one thing, but I really don't see any examples in the wild (through the limited lens of Google Books).

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 04:25, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

In addition to the above novel, which has eleven instances of イン (in, “inn”), here are a few:

• From 江戸の宿: 三都・街道宿泊事情 (2000):

もちろん当時のインにもさまざまあり、ノミに悩まされるインもあった(『インの文化史』)。

• From the Nikkei Newspaper, Volume 25 Issue 10 (1973):

く東急イン〉は、全国50ヶ所以上の主要都市にシティイン、大都市近郊の観光地にリゾートインを計画しております。

• From キリンビールの変身: ライフ・インダストリー革命への挑戦 (1988):

インを発明したのはギリシャ人と言われるが、それを制度として発展させたのは、西ヨーロッパ中を進撃して回ったローマ人だった。そして、厳密に言えば、インとは、旅行者を宿泊させるためのァパブリック・ハウス、であった。

• From 日経ウーマン, Issues 177-183 (2001):

スプレイグ夫妻はインキーパー歴 23 年。 9 年目に、小規模で洗練された理想のインを始めてみたいと思い、マンチェスターで最も歴史の 11764 年築の^」の家を見つけた。

Again, it's not common, but it does appear to be a lexical item in the Japanese language. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 06:10, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ These look fine to me. RFV passed.

Although, I am still wary of the lack of discussion of inns within Japan, and think some sort of usage note is in order. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 20:34, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Agreed re: the need for a usage note. From what I can tell, this term appears to be used solely to refer to a Western-style lodging establishment, usually not very large, and apparently all outside of Japan (other than the company names). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 21:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)