Talk:ဨကံ

Transcription unlike IPA

@RichardW57: I just noticed this in User:Erutuon/mainspace headers/possibly incorrect. There was also သမဏော, which had the header Mon+Pali; I removed Mon+. Why is the Mon and apparently Pali IPA transcription /ayekɔʔ/ entirely different from the Pali transliteration ekaṃ? Is it a logogram-type situation like with Sumerograms? — Eru·tuon 20:07, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, some Wisconsin speech is pretty far removed from Daniel Jones's English. English legal Latin has quite a few differences from the Latin of the Vatican. Having said that, I have a suspicion that the odd pronunciation of ဨကံ (ekaṃ) is a reading pronunciation - anusvara can represent a final glottal stop in Mon. Is your Thai up to asking Intobesa? If the Mon reading rules for Pali and Mon are similar, the recordings mostly seem reasonable. I intend to get to grips with the Mon reading rules - I suspect they're no worse than those of English, which actually aren't too bad. Intobesa's IPA has been pretty bad, and I intend to clean it up once I know what I should expect. For the amount of deviation from the 'standard' pronunciation (roughly Sinhalese with aspiration restored), I don't think it's much more deviant that I would expect Khmer pronunciation of Pali to be. For example, I would expect Pali ទាន (dāna) to be pronouced /tiə.ˈnĕəʔ/ in Cambodia.

@Erutuon: I hear several quite different accents during the lay chanting at our local temple, which is in the lineage of w:Ajahn Chah - the congregation is a roughly equal mix of Thais, Sinhalese and English, while the monks are mostly European. --RichardW57 (talk) 20:59, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

@RichardW57: I'm extremely ignorant about all these languages so I'll defer to your understanding that these pronunciations are related. I would just be glad if you could change the Mon Pali header to something that is an actual language name, so that it doesn't show up in User:Erutuon/mainspace headers/possibly incorrect. — Eru·tuon 21:15, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

@Erutuon: I almost change it on sight, though sometimes that may be a late change in cleaning up an entry. This one needs a lot of work, and could get nasty. The translations look wrong - for example, samaṇa Gotama standardly refers to the Buddha (as implied by the image that seems to be being plastered all over Wiktionary). I'm tempted to make it a separate entry (lemming principle) and risk it being shot down as SoP. All the 'usage examples' (lifted from a text book, I think, but probably from Myanmar and so not protected by copyright) in သမဏော (samaṇo) use that phrase. You probably won't recognise the entry by Monday. --RichardW57 (talk) 21:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

RFD discussion: July–October 2021

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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ဨကံ

This deletion request refers to the entry for 'Mon Pali' or Mon', not the entry for Pali.

This entry was created with the invalid language heading 'Mon Pali'. What pertained to Pali has been copied to the Pali entry on the same page or to the Roman script lemma for Pali, namely eka. The list of synonyms makes no sense - the words are not synonyms and has not been copied. Although the items in the entry have been tagged as Mon, I believe they are only ethnically Mon, and see no evidence that that remains is Mon. I have changed the L2 heading to 'Mon' for administrative convenience. I therefore propose that this entry be deleted. --RichardW57 (talk) 07:25, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

• Resolved. As with the other "Mon Pali" entries, only a Pali entry should be present. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 22:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)