Talk:জালিম
Latest comment: 11 months ago by Upamedhika in topic জালিম / জালেম
জালিম / জালেম
[edit]@Upamedhika I supposed that if this dictionary uses জালিম as main lemma, and a google search has 123.000 results for জালিম, and 37.900 for জালেম, then জালিম would be more common. Maybe spoken and written Bengali are different here. Exarchus (talk) 15:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Exarchus, it may be, in my opinion, due to a disproportionate amount of writings favoring the unumlauted form closer to its Perso-Arabic etymons, while the more general or commoner form is undoubtedly জালেম. Not everything written is necessary to be shown as more dominant. Spoken form is more important. For example, আজাইড়া is a highly informal and strictly dialectal word found only in Dhaka and neighbouring areas in central Bangladesh, not elsewhere (unless you count the recent, spreading influence of the city across the country), but the word is written mainly in this way (retroflex ড় interchanges with র sometimes) despite being absent in formal writings. জালেম should stay as the main entry, always. Upamedhika (talk) 16:02, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Well, জালিম was the main entry and I didn't change that. Maybe it still should be (as wiktionary lemmas are strictly speaking about the written form in the first place), with a note that the pronunciation is actually mostly 'e'. Exarchus (talk) 16:13, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- No, it shouldn’t be. Please stop meddling in the question of the more common variant in Bengali, when there is a clear answer of জালেম. I hope you don't make জালিম the supposed "more common" one again. Also, to be honest, I think now that many, if not most, of the Google results are from older literature. I bet newer literature is more acquainted with the spoken culture and all that. Upamedhika (talk) 16:21, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Of course I will not be changing things if I know that it would be controversial. But now there's this thing that if you click on the reference (Bengali-to-English) on the জালেম page, then you get: 'no জালেম found', with only some quotes with Jerusalem (জেরুজালেম) in it. So it could at least be added that জালিম is the traditional spelling. Exarchus (talk) 16:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Noting traditions is unnecessary. Just don't worry about জালেম. It is nicely arranged, as of now. And জেরুজালেম is, by the way, unrelated to all this. The -z- (or -j-) is just a phenomenon resulting from Jerusalem's English pronunciation being imitated by Bengali speakers to the closest native form possible. If all of that is cleared, then alright, and have a nice day. Upamedhika (talk) 16:39, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Of course I will not be changing things if I know that it would be controversial. But now there's this thing that if you click on the reference (Bengali-to-English) on the জালেম page, then you get: 'no জালেম found', with only some quotes with Jerusalem (জেরুজালেম) in it. So it could at least be added that জালিম is the traditional spelling. Exarchus (talk) 16:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- No, it shouldn’t be. Please stop meddling in the question of the more common variant in Bengali, when there is a clear answer of জালেম. I hope you don't make জালিম the supposed "more common" one again. Also, to be honest, I think now that many, if not most, of the Google results are from older literature. I bet newer literature is more acquainted with the spoken culture and all that. Upamedhika (talk) 16:21, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Well, জালিম was the main entry and I didn't change that. Maybe it still should be (as wiktionary lemmas are strictly speaking about the written form in the first place), with a note that the pronunciation is actually mostly 'e'. Exarchus (talk) 16:13, 19 July 2023 (UTC)