Talk:विपाशा

@Kutchkutch The initial /b/ of the Punjabi descendant needs explanation. Perhaps it was borrowed from an eastern dialect? But the river itself is in Punjab. -- 𝓑𝓱𝓪𝓰𝓪𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓪^{(𝓽𝓪𝓵𝓴)} 05:04, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta (Sorry for replying 4 months later)

Yes, the initial /b/ of the Punjabi term certainly needs explanation as per page 83 of A Comparative Phonology of Hindi and Panjabi:

OIA initial [v] changes to [b] in Hindi, whereas it is usually retained in Panjabi, except in its eastern dialects..certainly due to the influence of neighbouring Western Hindi....Most of the exceptions where [b] is found for the original [v] is Panjabi are therefore, due to the influence of Hindi. Some may, however, be loans from Hindi or from [Old Hindi or the Apabhramsa ancestor of Hindi]

Did you take a look at the corresponding entry in {{R:CDIAL}} 11796a vípāś- on page 685? Does it mean that Punjabi ਬਿਆਸ (biāsa) and Hindi ब्यास (byās) are from विपाश् (vipāś) rather than विपाशा (vipāśā)? {{R:CDIAL}} focuses more on how the word-final /s/ in 'Beas' indicates that it is a conservative form retaining OIA ś, which would have ordinarily been deleted in the MIA stage.

11796a vípāś- f. 'name of a river' RV.

P. beās 'id.' (A. Stein JRAS 1917, 92) -s due to retention of older geographic name or ← a WPah. dial. preserving -ś-.

What it says in (A. Stein JRAS 1917, 92)(A. Stein JRAS 1917, 92) is

the Beas...is repeatedly mentioned in other Hymns of the Rgveda under its proper ancient designation of Vipāś.

The source of the Beas River is in Himachal Pradesh where Western Pahari languages are spoken, and Himachal Pradesh has historically been part of the Greater Punjab region until it was separated from Punjab in 1966. Therefore, the Punjabi term being borrowed from a Western Pahari language with word-initial /b/ seems plausible. Kutchkutch (talk) 04:04, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Thanks for the interesting insight. It really seems plausible that the origin of the name lies in a Western Pahari dialect.

Regarding whether Punjabi ਬਿਆਸ (biāsa) and Hindi ब्यास (byās) are from the root-noun Vípāś or its later thematicized derivative Vipāśā, it's not clear to me how the how the word-final /s/ in 'Beas' indicates that it is a conservative form deriving from the root noun. Because Vipāśā would have likewise yielded Beas: Vipāśā -> Viāsā -> Byās.

Moreover, the nominative of the Vedic noun is Vípāṭ. While the ś was indeed present in other declined forms like the accusative or the locative, one would expect that a proper noun which is inherited would be inherited from the nominative. -- 𝓑𝓱𝓪𝓰𝓪𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓪^{(𝓽𝓪𝓵𝓴)} 07:19, 13 April 2023 (UTC)