Talk:डुकर
Latest comment: 6 years ago by Kutchkutch
@Kutchkutch Hi, are you sure about the etymology of this word? The ड seems to be a very strange outcome of स, and I haven't seen this change anywhere else. CDIAL is missing the term as well. I notice a variant with an initial dental is listed in Date, maybe some Dravidian etymology is possible? But all the Marathi dictionaries, and the main entry in Date, say the source is Sanskrit... —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान) 19:56, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- @AryamanA No, the exact etymology appears to be unclear. The word also appears to be present in Gujarati ડુક્કર (ḍukkar), Konkani, McGregor (Raj.), Grierson for Hindi, How to Learn Hindustani, DOOKKAR ڈکر - dukkar. The references that provide a source all mention Sanskrit सूकर (sūkara) or शूकर (śūkara) with certainty. Only this suggests uncertainty about the supposed Sanskrit origin with [सं. शूकर(?), ध्वनिशब्द(?), शब्द परकी असावा]. Perhaps दुकोर (dukor) is a Konkani variant. The dental variant is mentioned as ḍukkәr ‘pig’ > duttә in Dhongde & Wali in the section 'Acquisition of Marathi: A case study', and as a Parsi Gujarati variant. Perhaps Old Marathi सुक्र (sukra), सूकर (sūkara) as the immediate ancestor is unlikely. A Dravidian etymology seems plausible, but there appears to be no evidence for it. Kutchkutch (talk) 02:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Kutchkutch: Perhaps the best course of action would be to reconstruct Ashokan Prakrit *𑀟𑀼𑀓𑁆𑀓𑀭 (*ḍukkara) as an ancestor, and give the शूकर etymology as a secondary possibility. The change ś > ḍ is really unlikely in all of these languages at once imho. Yes दुकोर seems to be a Konkani variant. I believe the 'Acquisition of Marathi: A case study' chapter deals with the Marathi language as children learn it, and so the dental form is probably just a pronunciation variant as the child cannot differentiate between dental and retroflex at that stage of learning. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान) 22:05, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
- @AryamanA With at least four cognates (and their alternate forms), I suppose the 'convenience of reconstruction' is a way to address the issue. There are probably many more cases like this. Kutchkutch (talk) 08:35, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Kutchkutch: Perhaps the best course of action would be to reconstruct Ashokan Prakrit *𑀟𑀼𑀓𑁆𑀓𑀭 (*ḍukkara) as an ancestor, and give the शूकर etymology as a secondary possibility. The change ś > ḍ is really unlikely in all of these languages at once imho. Yes दुकोर seems to be a Konkani variant. I believe the 'Acquisition of Marathi: A case study' chapter deals with the Marathi language as children learn it, and so the dental form is probably just a pronunciation variant as the child cannot differentiate between dental and retroflex at that stage of learning. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान) 22:05, 18 April 2018 (UTC)