Talk:طمبيل
Add topicLatest comment: 4 years ago by Metaknowledge in topic RFD discussion: November 2019–March 2020
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Loanwords are written in matres lectionis. Fenakhay (talk) 18:54, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Is that an issue of common Arabic (or Moroccan Arabic) orthography, or a Wiktionary convention? What should it be, طوموبيل? --Lambiam 23:08, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Only after saving did I see that we actually have that as an entry :). --Lambiam 23:11, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
- Both actually. If you google طمبيل, you only have 6,800 hits but 293,000 for طوموبيل. Borrowed words in Semitic languages are usually written in matres lectionis since they don't fit the root system used and the vocalization can't be guessed. Fenakhay (talk) 01:55, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
- 6,800 hits probably means enough durably archived uses to warrant inclusion as an
{{alternative spelling of}}. Even simpler, make this a hard redirect to طوموبيل, adding a usage note there deprecating the motherless spelling. --Lambiam 08:33, 30 November 2019 (UTC)- But the hits aren't all Moroccan Arabic, so that's a very misleading way to judge it. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:50, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
- 6,800 hits probably means enough durably archived uses to warrant inclusion as an
- Both actually. If you google طمبيل, you only have 6,800 hits but 293,000 for طوموبيل. Borrowed words in Semitic languages are usually written in matres lectionis since they don't fit the root system used and the vocalization can't be guessed. Fenakhay (talk) 01:55, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
- RFD-deleted. But there should probably be an entry here, and I'm just not sure for which dialect(s); those with ṭombīl would probably write it this way, I imagine. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:50, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: طمبيل (tumubīl) would be still pronounced the same way as the preferred spelling طوموبيل (ṭumubīl). The first two u's are short, so if it were a native word with predictable patterns, then the long vowels (matres lectionis) in place of short vowels, in this case و (w) would not be required but in loanwords, long vowels are frequently used to represent short ones. My Moroccan phrasebook has the spelling طموبيل (ṭumubīl). The spelling طومبيل (ṭumubīl) would also be totally possible. None of the three spellings are "incorrect" but I'm OK to just keep the best spelling. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Atitarev: To the extent that this should be an RFV matter, we can add spellings that are attested, like the one in your phrasebook, and this one if there is clear attestation for it, as alternative spellings. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:41, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: طمبيل (tumubīl) would be still pronounced the same way as the preferred spelling طوموبيل (ṭumubīl). The first two u's are short, so if it were a native word with predictable patterns, then the long vowels (matres lectionis) in place of short vowels, in this case و (w) would not be required but in loanwords, long vowels are frequently used to represent short ones. My Moroccan phrasebook has the spelling طموبيل (ṭumubīl). The spelling طومبيل (ṭumubīl) would also be totally possible. None of the three spellings are "incorrect" but I'm OK to just keep the best spelling. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)