Talk:ضالين
Latest comment: 7 years ago by Atitarev
@Palaestrator verborum: Hi. According to HW, the lemma is at ضَالّ (ḍāll) and its plural forms are broken. Where exactly does the form ضَالِّين (ḍāllīn) fit? Could you please check ضَالّ (ḍāll)? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Atitarev I see that the participle has only two broken plurals in the Hans Wehr. But it would be normal for the active participle to have a sound plural, and probably there was in the archaic language. Qurʾān 23:106 “قَالُوا رَبَّنَا غَلَبَتْ عَلَيْنَا شِقْوَتُنَا وَكُنَّا قَوْمًا ضَالِّينَ” I can only understand as: “And they said: Our Lord, our misery has taken us, and we have been a people astray.” In this instance after ”people” in singular ”astray” follows in the plural, which I understand as a constructio ad sensum. At-Tabari apparently makes the same connection, though from his rewording we can infer that that form was already uncommon in his time (or never common, if it is a Syriac substrate …): “كنا قوما ضَلَلْنا عن سبيل الرشاد”. But you have today already found a similar quote in ضَلَّ (ḍalla). So you wanted to enquire if I see the form in a similar fashion? Yes, I do not know any other solution than assuming it to represent a sound plural of the active participle.
- Note that Hans Wehr vocalizes شَقْوَة (šaqwa), not شِقْوَة (šiqwa) (what Almaʿany gives). Palaestrator verborum (loquier) 12:39, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Palaestrator verborum:Thanks. User:Erutuon may fix the headword to allow sound plurals along with broken plurals. Please also see Talk:ضال. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
- The headword template already allows that. You just have to spell out the sound plural and broken plurals and put them in separate
|pl=,|pl1=,|pl2=(etc.) parameters. — Eru·tuon 20:17, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
- The headword template already allows that. You just have to spell out the sound plural and broken plurals and put them in separate
- @Palaestrator verborum:Thanks. User:Erutuon may fix the headword to allow sound plurals along with broken plurals. Please also see Talk:ضال. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Atitarev. So, where do you think the quotations should be dropped? Both quotes at the verb entry ضَلَّ (ḍalla) only to illustrate the meaning, or also both at the active participle entry ضَالّ (ḍāll) for attestation of the plural form and as this forms a lemma? Feel free to use my 23:106 quote with my translation if you are decided. Palaestrator verborum (loquier) 17:44, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Palaestrator verborum: It makes more sense to leave it at ضَلَّ (ḍalla). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:22, 2 November 2017 (UTC)