Talk:տաւար

@Allahverdi Verdizade, this and տոլմա (tolma) have a տ- (t-) where Turkish has a d-. Was it pronounced as /t/ in Old Anatolian Turkish? I note the spelling with a ط. --Vahag (talk) 18:14, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes, all Turkish words with initial /d/, used to be /t/, as we follow Doerfer in viewing the Oghuz voicing as an innovation. See طد. The /t/ in front of back vowels started to shift to /d̥/ (i.e. lost aspiration) around the year 1000, before the diverging of Oghuz into West and East (=ancestral to modern Turkmen), and had shifted to /d/ (+voicing) by 1450 or so. Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 21:34, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

@Allahverdi Verdizade: thanks. Do I understand correctly? Proto-Turkic [tʰ] > Oghuz Turkish [t] > Oghuz Turkish [d]? And if so, why is the Proto-Turkic ancestor of Turkish davar reconstructed with a d- when the non-Oghuz cognates have a t-? Vahag (talk) 16:39, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

1. Somewhat simplified - yes. Many exceptions exist. Brendemoen gives a good summary here, although, his timeline is a little different from that of Doerfer. 2. We moved all reconstructed terms with initial voiced stops to corresponding voiceless ones, but no-one has gotten to updating the links yet... Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 21:33, 10 February 2022 (UTC)