Talk:ձʻ

breathy voiced stops/affricates

@RagingPichu for such letters, I think a voiced aspirated stop like d͡zʰ is more of a typical rendering of the Armenian meaning. Thoughts? Hovsepig (talk) 06:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

this is improper IPA. this is what's used in their ad hoc system they use, but should not belong in IPA brackets on wiktionary, where field-specific conventions would be obfuscating RagingPichu (talk) 07:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

@RagingPichuI’m waiting to hear back from Seyfarth on this. Because when I asked Vaux and others, they said using a simple ^h was the more typical way to see these voiced aspirated Hovsepig (talk) 21:30, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

if i remember correctly this is a pre-IPA indo-europeanist transcription that's technically wrong because it implies a voiceless release: indo-aryan languages now use a mix of ʰ or ʱ, depending on how lazy the author is, with the second considered proper IPA. however, armenian breathy-voiced stops are nowhere near as noisy as in indic languages, and this is implicated by the transcription b̤. i agree that the transcription d̤͡z̤ is particularly ugly, and i prefer ʣ̤, but this is unfortunately no longer accepted by the IPA. RagingPichu (talk) 21:55, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

@RagingPichu well I asked Seyfarth. He said "the voiced aspirated ʰ and breathy voice transcriptions are technically different articulations, but most people don't make a distinction and use one to mean the other"

To be honest, we don't even have dialectal words on wiktionary. So it's not really a big deal if we use ʰ or ɦ or dots for these consonants. Though it would be wise to keep a note on how different pronunciation transcriptions exist for these consonants -- especially because nearly any armenian linguist is gonna think to use ʰ Hovsepig (talk) 13:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)