Talk:обдешень
Add topicLatest comment: 5 years ago by Atitarev
@Cinemantique, Atitarev, Wikitiki89 What is the gender of this noun? Benwing2 (talk) 08:57, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- It is unknown and cannot be determined from the shape. The template should not force to enter the gender. This dialectal word was recorded once in 1958 in a village of the Pskov oblast called Kamenka: this or this. The recorder did not specify the gender. --Vahag (talk) 11:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- I changed the module so you can explicitly enter "?" or "?-in" or "?-an". But I have to ask, why do we have such an obscure word in Wiktionary? Benwing2 (talk) 11:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- Because our motto is "All words in all languages". The inclusion of obscure, dialectal, obsolete, rare words is the strength of Wiktionary. For normal words there are much better sources. --Vahag (talk) 11:57, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- I changed the module so you can explicitly enter "?" or "?-in" or "?-an". But I have to ask, why do we have such an obscure word in Wiktionary? Benwing2 (talk) 11:52, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
@Vahagn Petrosyan, Benwing2: This should be probably moved to the normalised spelling обдеше́нь. This spelling is used in Псковский областной словарь т. 22, where also the (masculine) gender is specified. Guldrelokk (talk) 13:27, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- I have retired from editing Russian. I will ping @Atitarev. --Vahag (talk) 13:51, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
By the way, is it meaningful to provide a standard ru-IPA pronunciation for obscure dialectal words? They have never been said this way. Guldrelokk (talk) 14:02, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Guldrelokk I don't know whether it's meaningful to provide such a pronunciation, but (1) it might be useful to indicate how a standard language speaker would say it if they were to treat it as a standard-language word, (2) I have a script to automatically generate pronunciations for words missing pronunciation, and if we want to simply not display a pronunciation I'd have to special-case this script to skip this word, which it's easier not to do, (3) I'm not sure what to display if we aren't to display a standard pronunciation. Note also that English dictionaries do indicate pronunciations for dialectal words, and they do this with respect to standard-language phonemes. Benwing2 (talk) 00:59, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Benwing2, Guldrelokk: I agree that we can produce standard pronunciation for dialectal or obsolete words, if the accents are available and the pronunciation seems predictable. It is how most Russian would read them when they see them written. We can also, optionally, like in any case, add a label saying that it's a standard pronunciation. Dialectal pronunciation can be added or described as well. (Northern Russian dialects). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:12, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Guldrelokk I don't know whether it's meaningful to provide such a pronunciation, but (1) it might be useful to indicate how a standard language speaker would say it if they were to treat it as a standard-language word, (2) I have a script to automatically generate pronunciations for words missing pronunciation, and if we want to simply not display a pronunciation I'd have to special-case this script to skip this word, which it's easier not to do, (3) I'm not sure what to display if we aren't to display a standard pronunciation. Note also that English dictionaries do indicate pronunciations for dialectal words, and they do this with respect to standard-language phonemes. Benwing2 (talk) 00:59, 1 January 2019 (UTC)