Talk:νενέ
Add topicLatest comment: 10 years ago by Dijan in topic Etymology
Etymology
[edit]Shouldn't it rather be from ancient greek "νίννη"?
- Probably, but I don't know enough about Modern Greek etymology to say it's the only possibility, so I left both in there. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
- I have changed the entry to reference my Greek dictionaries - but left a comment to the Ancient Greek. — Saltmarshαπάντηση 09:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
- Probably the best option. There may be historical or sound-change evidence pointing in that direction that I wouldn't know about. I wonder about the origin of the Turkish word, though. Of course, words for parents and grandparents are often influenced by the phonological peculiarities of baby talk, so are remarkably similar in many unrelated languages throughout the world. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
- I would be very surprised, if it didn't derive from νίννη or its alternative form νίνη. It is not peculiar that the accent moved to the last syllable. The same thing happend with μάμμη/μάμμα which became μαμά, πάππας which became μπαμπάς, πάππος which became παππούς. That πάππας became μπαμπάς instead of παπ(π)άς could be explained by the fact that the latter became to mean "father" in the sense of pastor/priest. In addition the intonation of the last syllable already existed in antiquity as is verified for αμμά a variant of μάμμη (mother). I believe the Turkish adopted the Greek word νίν(ν)η as well as πάπ(π)ας or παπ(π)άς, perhaps due to mutual linguistic influence the ultimate forms νενέ and μπαμπάς resulted. But to be certain one would have to check for Byzantine sources which are older than the Ottoman rule over Greece. What I find very interesting, also, is that in ancient Greek, there also was the word άττα for father, which is similar to the Turkish ata as in Atatürk meaning father of the Turks. Pure coincidence or an adaption of the Greek language or perhaps of a related language such as Persian? Constantine 21:11, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
- There is also the Persian ننه "nana" ("nane" in modern Iranian) and also nena and nana in Serbo-Croatian. It appears that most dictionaries I've looked at in the mentioned languages list these words as native, expressive, or developed from baby talk. --Dijan (talk) 23:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
- I would be very surprised, if it didn't derive from νίννη or its alternative form νίνη. It is not peculiar that the accent moved to the last syllable. The same thing happend with μάμμη/μάμμα which became μαμά, πάππας which became μπαμπάς, πάππος which became παππούς. That πάππας became μπαμπάς instead of παπ(π)άς could be explained by the fact that the latter became to mean "father" in the sense of pastor/priest. In addition the intonation of the last syllable already existed in antiquity as is verified for αμμά a variant of μάμμη (mother). I believe the Turkish adopted the Greek word νίν(ν)η as well as πάπ(π)ας or παπ(π)άς, perhaps due to mutual linguistic influence the ultimate forms νενέ and μπαμπάς resulted. But to be certain one would have to check for Byzantine sources which are older than the Ottoman rule over Greece. What I find very interesting, also, is that in ancient Greek, there also was the word άττα for father, which is similar to the Turkish ata as in Atatürk meaning father of the Turks. Pure coincidence or an adaption of the Greek language or perhaps of a related language such as Persian? Constantine 21:11, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
- Probably the best option. There may be historical or sound-change evidence pointing in that direction that I wouldn't know about. I wonder about the origin of the Turkish word, though. Of course, words for parents and grandparents are often influenced by the phonological peculiarities of baby talk, so are remarkably similar in many unrelated languages throughout the world. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
- I have changed the entry to reference my Greek dictionaries - but left a comment to the Ancient Greek. — Saltmarshαπάντηση 09:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)