Talk:Μακεδονία
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[edit]RFV
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Rfv-sense
The third sense (Macedonia, a country variously known as the Republic of Macedonia and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) is highly dubious. I am pretty sure that the Hellenic Republic never associates any state entity with the name Μακεδονία other than the own province (which is a sub-state entity). The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 21:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
- Will likely be hard to document if used by speakers of Greek, but the official position of the Hellenic Republic is irrelevant except perhaps as a usage note. — Carolina wren discussió 23:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
- I think it’s easy to confuse the source with the target (word in the source language versus the translation in the target language). Μακεδονία means Macedonia, and Macedonia is a recently constituted country to the north of Greece, therefore it might seem logical to say that Μακεδονία means what Macedonia means (if A=B and B=C, then A=C). But words are complex values, not at all like A, B or C. With words in different languages, usually the meanings only partly coincide. Although in English, Macedonia is the name of a new country, I’m pretty certain that Μακεδονία is not the name of a new country. So Μακεδονία only means Macedonia in certain senses, not in others. —Stephen 21:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I was talking with User:ArielGlenn and User:Flyax earlier today, and it appears that the word is in use, but it's quite rare, and almost always politically motivated. I imagine that an English word of similar frequency would be no problem for our crack rfv team, but it appears to be rather beyond our current Greek resources. However, it's rare enough that I'm ok with it being nixed. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 21:47, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, Μακεδονία is never used for the country, even by the relatively small minority of leftish Greeks who oppose the government's stance vis-à-vis the naming dispute. In defence of the neighbouring country's "right to self-determination", they tend to use the constitutional name, «Δημοκρατία της Μακεδονίας» ("Republic of Macedonia"), instead. As for the quote cited, it not nearly as definitive as the erroneous translation suggests. The full sentence reads as follows: "But as long as we encouraged their further harmonization with the ancient Greek Macedonian heritage, if we helped them feel that – they too! – were descendants (if not equivalent, at least adopted) of the multicultural Alexander the Great, in the near future we would be bordered to the North by a friendly and familiar Macedonia, by a late "Macedonian kingdom" of the Hellenistic variety (mutadis mutandis, of course)." ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 11:39, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- I knew it! I would have erased this POV meaning a long time ago, if I was conversant with the Greek language (I am not) and now, when a native Greek speaker explicated the inadmissibility of this meaning being associated with Μακεδονία, I suggest removing the meaning and moving the ciatation to the appropriate namespace. As Carolina elsewhere explained, one should have patience for one whole month, but I ΚΕΚΡΩΨ's comment was stringent enough. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 12:45, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- RfV fails - no three quotations were provided. Meaning is about to be removed and the existent sole quotation moved to Citations namespace. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 08:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- I knew it! I would have erased this POV meaning a long time ago, if I was conversant with the Greek language (I am not) and now, when a native Greek speaker explicated the inadmissibility of this meaning being associated with Μακεδονία, I suggest removing the meaning and moving the ciatation to the appropriate namespace. As Carolina elsewhere explained, one should have patience for one whole month, but I ΚΕΚΡΩΨ's comment was stringent enough. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 12:45, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, Μακεδονία is never used for the country, even by the relatively small minority of leftish Greeks who oppose the government's stance vis-à-vis the naming dispute. In defence of the neighbouring country's "right to self-determination", they tend to use the constitutional name, «Δημοκρατία της Μακεδονίας» ("Republic of Macedonia"), instead. As for the quote cited, it not nearly as definitive as the erroneous translation suggests. The full sentence reads as follows: "But as long as we encouraged their further harmonization with the ancient Greek Macedonian heritage, if we helped them feel that – they too! – were descendants (if not equivalent, at least adopted) of the multicultural Alexander the Great, in the near future we would be bordered to the North by a friendly and familiar Macedonia, by a late "Macedonian kingdom" of the Hellenistic variety (mutadis mutandis, of course)." ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 11:39, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Follow-up
[edit]This sense has been re-added and re-removed by various editors over the last eleven years, and by now seems to be citable, and so has been restored; see Citations:Μακεδονία. - -sche (discuss) 19:52, 4 February 2020 (UTC)