Reconstruction talk:Proto-West Germanic/klainī

*klinaną

@Sokkjo I think it would be beneficial to show Proto-Germanic *klinaną in the etymology rather than Proto-West Germanic *klenan, as the potentiality of a relationship is obscured by *klenan being a Class 5 verb. A Class 1 verb is more elucidating: Proto-Germanic *klinaną (“to polish”) > *klainō (“shine”) > *klainiz (“shiny”), parallels Proto-Germanic *grīpaną (“to grip, grasp”) > *graipō (“grip, grasp”) > *graipiz (“gripping, grasping”), whence Old English grīpan~grāp~grǣpe. Leasnam (talk) 13:36, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I can certainly see the sense of "small" being derived from "clay, made of clay, (i.e. clayen)" where clay figurines are concerned. From the "plastered" sense, I can see how a sense of "fixed up, made to look nice" could arise. "Polish" would be "smearing of butter, fat, or oil" onto something old and dusty, like leather boots. Leasnam (talk) 13:54, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

How does *klinaną > *klainō happen? -- Sokkjō 23:23, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't "happen". It's analogous.
">" is probably not the best way to describe the correspondence between original ī/[i] and ai (PIE e-grade and o-grade). The 1st and 3rd person singular preterite of *klinaną is *klain. *klainō is a noun (> Old High German kleina). I'm not an Indo-Europeanist, so I haven't studied the derivational processes; but it's evident that many Germanic nouns correspond to preterites of Class 1 + -ō (e.g. *drībaną~*draib,*draibō; *rīdaną~*raid,*raidō; *līþaną~*laiþ,*laidō, etc. In some instances these "preterite" o-grade stems have adjectives in -iz, like *raidiz (“relating to riding, for riding”) and *graipiz above. It's often a reliably predictable pattern. You might be able to explain it better though. Ironically, *klainiz fits nicely into this pattern: *klī̌naną~*klain,*klainō,*klainiz>*klainī; almost too nicely. Leasnam (talk) 23:37, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I've never heard of nouns being built on the past indicative. Usually secondary full-grades come about from secondary verbs, like newly built causatives. I don't see the point of trying to explicitly derive it from *klinaną, especially since it itself looks more like a secondary strong verb from an original *klinōną iterative, than a nasal-infix. -- Sokkjō 02:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Are you saying that a nasal infix into *klīnaną, making it *klī̌nnaną could result in it becoming *klinaną ? Leasnam (talk) 03:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm saying that *klainī, assuming it's of PIE origin, is either from a lost causative (secondary or not), or inherited from PIE *gleyH-nó-s. -- Sokkjō 03:56, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Then from *klainijaną (“to make stick”), perhaps causative of *klīnaną (“to stick, cling, adhere”); but could there be an adjective *gloyH-ni-s (?) Leasnam (talk) 13:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

1. PIE *gleyH- ⇒ *gleyH-nó-s > (laryngeal metathesis) *gleHi-nó-s > PG *klainaz > PWG *klain(ī)

2. PIE *gleyH- ⇒ *gloyH-éye-ti > PG *klaijaną ⇒ *klai-ni-z ⇒ *klain-ja-z > PWG *klainī

3. PIE *gleyH- ⇒ *gli-né-H-ti ~ *gli-n-H-ént > PG *klinaną ⇒ (secondary causitive) *klain-janą ⇒ *klain-ja-z > PWG *klainī

Hypothesis #3 strikes me as the most likely as it supposes a single innovative nasal. -- Sokkjō 16:48, 19 March 2024 (UTC)