Reconstruction talk:Proto-Indo-European/ph₂tḗr

Is this related to the zero-grade of peh2 = protect? — This unsigned comment was added by 69.12.144.158 (talk) at 02:27, 6 October 2008.

Could as well be be, *ph₂ + agentive suffix *-ter, seems to agree both formally and semantically. If you have some verifiable source that claims so, feel free to expand the ==Etymology== section (speculations and original research is forbidden) --Ivan Štambuk 12:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I saw the meaning "protector" mentioned sort of off-hand in a paper on the PIE case system by Roland Pooth (p. 13). Not sure if that counts as a proper source, though. — Eru·tuon 05:42, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Bulgarian descendant

Is the Bulgarian word (deprecated template usage) баща (bashta) a descendant? We have p->b transition and the t is well preserved. Are there any other Slavic descendants meaning father? Bogorm 11:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

No, this noun had no reflexes in Slavic. Bogorm, historical linguistics does not work on the basis of phonetic similarity and ad-hoc postulated arbitrary sound changes, but on the basis of systematically established phoneme correspondences ("sound laws") observed or postulated to have occur over the period of time and supported by numerous external and internal evidence. --Ivan Štambuk 11:56, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

That is why I am asking here on the talk page in lieu of boldly and recklessly adding. Bogorm 12:36, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, your effort would be much more productive if you spend some time learning the basics of PIE > Slavic.. There are lots of good books out there (on books.google.com, illegal sites..) I don't mind answering any of your questions (if I knew the answer; my knowledge is completely amateurish); it's just that this kind of guessing game won't get us very far. --Ivan Štambuk

It actually has reflexes in Slavic - Serbo-Croatian baća, Russian батька. Bogorm 11:12, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

That word has nothing to do with this PIE noun. --Ivan Štambuk 14:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Judging from the semantics in Serbo-Croatian, the etymon (either *batja or more likely *batę, in view of the Old East Slavic form mentioned at батя (batja)) actually looks like an ancient baby-talk alternation of *brat(r)ъ (“brother”) (also compare *brat(r)ьja (“brothers”)), which may have become influenced in its semantics by a baby-talk expression of the baba type (although in Slavic, *baba means "old woman", not "old man"). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:53, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Slavic *pastorъkъ

According to HJP it reflects Slavic *pa- + PIE *ph₂tḗr, but this derivation doesn't seem to be listed in any etymological dictionary. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 09:55, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

@Ivan Štambuk: On father, Lithuanian pãtinas (“male animal”) is mentioned. Does it really belong to this etymon? Should it be listed here as a derivation? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:14, 17 January 2017 (UTC)