Reconstruction talk:Proto-Celtic/boukolyos
Add topicLatest comment: 6 years ago by JohnC5 in topic *-yo-stem vs. *-i-stem
*-yo-stem vs. *-i-stem
[edit]@Rua, Matasović reconstructs a Celtic *-i-stem for this word. What's the reasoning for the *-yo-stem, especially if Old Irish attests an -i-stem? —*i̯óh₁nC[5] 22:11, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
- It was already present in the Irish entry, all I did was fill in the red link. —Rua (mew) 22:30, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
- It should probably be moved to *boukolis, but it is rather odd *gʷowkólos should randomly become an i-stem (or a yo-stem, for that matter) in Celtic. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 23:17, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: Actually, *boukolyos may come from GPC. Anyone speak Welsh? I can't Perhaps we should list both? —*i̯óh₁nC[5] 03:11, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- The etymology in GPC says: "Cornish and Breton bugel ‘child, herdsman’, Irish buachaill ‘herdsman, child’: < Celtic *boukoli̯os, cf. Greek Βουκόλοσ [sic], namely the element of bu2 + the element of cail from the root *qel- ‘to drive’; the regular plural form bugelydd < *boukolíi̯i, but the new plural bugeiliaid was formed in the Bible of 1588." However, bugelydd can equally well come from *boukoleyes (i-stem plural) as from *boukoliyī (yo-stem plural), so since bugail can be an i-stem or a yo-stem, but buachaill can only be an i-stem, it's more economical to reconstruct it as an i-stem. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 10:45, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- So, shall we move it? —*i̯óh₁nC[5] 10:52, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- The etymology in GPC says: "Cornish and Breton bugel ‘child, herdsman’, Irish buachaill ‘herdsman, child’: < Celtic *boukoli̯os, cf. Greek Βουκόλοσ [sic], namely the element of bu2 + the element of cail from the root *qel- ‘to drive’; the regular plural form bugelydd < *boukolíi̯i, but the new plural bugeiliaid was formed in the Bible of 1588." However, bugelydd can equally well come from *boukoleyes (i-stem plural) as from *boukoliyī (yo-stem plural), so since bugail can be an i-stem or a yo-stem, but buachaill can only be an i-stem, it's more economical to reconstruct it as an i-stem. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 10:45, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja: Actually, *boukolyos may come from GPC. Anyone speak Welsh? I can't Perhaps we should list both? —*i̯óh₁nC[5] 03:11, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- It should probably be moved to *boukolis, but it is rather odd *gʷowkólos should randomly become an i-stem (or a yo-stem, for that matter) in Celtic. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 23:17, 14 January 2018 (UTC)