Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/辛苦

艱苦

@Justinrleung I'm wondering if we should list this under Mandarin. 艱苦 is also used in Mandarin, but my understanding is that it is more intense than 辛苦. On the other hand, 辛苦 is not used in Hokkien, so 艱苦 is the term that we use instead. The dog2 (talk) 14:24, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@The dog2: I don't think it's true that 辛苦 is not used in Hokkien. I've heard it a bunch of times in Hokkien songs. (Maybe it's true for Singaporean Hokkien.) I think this synonym list is tricky. 艱苦 is used in Mandarin (and other varieties), but not in the same contexts that it's used in Hokkien. Perhaps we could restrict it to a certain context? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:14, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Sure, but I can't think of how to restrict it. I know the difference between 辛苦 and 艱苦 in Mandarin, but I find it hard to translate that nuance into English.

As for Hokkien songs, just so you know, just like in Cantonese songs, they often use expressions that would not be used in regular speech. For instance, you'll often see 今夜 in Hokkien song lyrics, but nobody ever says it that way. It's always 今暝. Likewise, you sometimes see 自己 in Hokkien song lyrics, but in practice, we always say 家己. The dog2 (talk) 16:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@The dog2: I guess saying that it's used in Hokkien songs isn't the best way of showing that it's used in regular speech, but 辛苦 looks like a word used in regular speech if you look it up in 臺灣閩南語常用詞辭典. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:52, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: OK, if you have an authoritative source for Taiwan then sure, add it in. The dog2 (talk) 17:11, 24 March 2020 (UTC)