Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/謝謝

Wenchang and Haikou

@The dog2 Do you have any sources for these? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:10, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Wenchang is based on what I've heard from my Hainanese relatives. For Haikou, that's based on some Hainanese dramas I've watched on YouTube. It's in the last minute of this video. The dog2 (talk) 16:14, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

@The dog2: Are your Hainanese relatives recently from Wenchang or living in Wenchang? If they're second+ generation in Singapore (or elsewhere outside of Wenchang), I don't think we should treat them as Wenchang necessarily. And for the video above, how do you know it's from Haikou? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:44, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

My Hainanese relatives trace their ancestry to Wenchang, though the ones that I'm more closely-related to were born in Singapore. I do still have some relatives in Wenchang, but I've only visited them once, and some of the stuff I added was based on what I heard when my Singaporean relatives spoke to my Chinese relatives.

As for the video, I can't remember whether it's in that video itself or other videos with the same group of actors, but they did mention that they were in Haikou. The dog2 (talk) 19:06, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

@The dog2: I would suggest that you be a little cautious about adding Wenchang then. Maybe we could consider adding a Singaporean Hainanese separate from Wenchang? I'm not sure if there's a substantial Hainanese presence in Singapore for this to make sense. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:12, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't know what you would consider significant. There is certainly a community that dates back to colonial times, but it's only fifth in population among the Chinese community after the Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese and Hakka communities. And the Hainanese language is now moribund in Singapore due to the government's policy of trying to eradicate dialects in favour of Manadarin, so I'm not sure it's worth the trouble creating an entry for Singaporean Hainanese. Another complication is that Singapore's Hainanese community is not homogeneous; the largest number came from Wenchang, but there are also some that came from Haikou and Qionghai, and the Hainanese language is slightly different between those groups.

As a side note, the government policy is causing Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese to die out too, but because those communities are much larger, it will take a much longer time for them to die out that for Hainanese. The dog2 (talk) 19:29, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

@The dog2: If there is an established community of speakers (and you have access to them for clarification), I think that'd be fine. If you think it's worthwhile (especially if there's some obvious cases of influence from other Chinese varieties or Malay), we could add it. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I'll leave that up to you to decide then. Yes, the Hainanese community in Singapore has been there since colonial times, so you could call it an established community that is very much part of the fabric of Singapore. Unfortunately, I don't live in Singapore at the moment, so I don't see my relatives as often any more. I only get to see them when they visit me in the U.S., or when I make trips back to Singapore. The dog2 (talk) 19:55, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Wenchang

@The dog2 Would like some proof, please :D — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:42, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Here it is: [1] The dog2 (talk) 01:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@The dog2: Thanks! — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:24, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Hong Kong Cantonese

@Suzukaze-c Are you sure about 謝謝? RcAlex36 (talk) 12:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: https://t.me/rime_cantonese/53297, https://t.me/rime_cantonese/53306. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 12:28, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: I thought 謝謝 is supposed to sound humorous. @Justinrleung, what do you think? RcAlex36 (talk) 12:32, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@RcAlex36, Suzukaze-c: I never heard of it used in normal (colloquial) situations. I’ll let RcAlex36 decide since he’s the one in HK. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 13:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Justinrleung, Suzukaze-c: Leaning towards delete. RcAlex36 (talk) 13:50, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@RcAlex36, Suzukaze-c: I will say that words.hk currently labels 謝謝 as 書面語, so I would also lean towards delete. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:04, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Reverted. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 00:20, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

唔該 vs 多謝

@Justinrleung, RcAlex36 Speaking of which, I wonder if the labels I added are necessarily the best. They're generally accurate, but of course, it's a little more complicated than that. For instance, if you go to a restaurant and the waiter pours you tea or brings your food to you, then you should say 唔該 to the waiter, but when you pay the bill at the end of your meal, the manager is supposed to say 多謝 to you. You guys probably know all these as native speaker, and I know when to use which one from having enough experience with the language, but here's a humorous take on the differences. The dog2 (talk) 18:24, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

@The dog2: The labels are okay, I think. The manager (or anyone in a business) uses 多謝 to thank a customer because it's not really a favour but (sort of) a gift from the customer. The usage notes at the entries can be used to flesh the differences out a little more. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:28, 22 February 2021 (UTC)