Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/空心菜
Add topicLatest comment: 2 years ago by Neeweeg in topic Singaporean Hokkien
Singaporean Hokkien
[edit]@The dog2 Are you sure we should include "kangkung" under Singaporean Hokkien? Do you have a source showing its use in a Hokkien context? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 18:28, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: I don't have a video, but everybody refers to this vegetable as kangkung. It's quite common for people to codeswitch to Malay to refer to this vegetable even when speaking English or Mandarin too, not just Hokkien. The dog2 (talk) 21:36, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- @The dog2: Hmm, I asked another Singaporean, and he said the term in Hokkien "should" be èng-chhài. Also this also only has 蕹菜. If it's considered "codeswitching", then I don't think it should be here. Is this term used by speakers who do not speak Malay or English? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 21:40, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: I'd say it is definitely used by people who don't speak Malay or English. Whether it's borrowed into Hokkien or a Hokkien speaker just using a Malay word is debatable. A similar example is the word for squid. 鰇魚 is the proper Hokkien term, but it's not uncommon for people to refer it as "sotong" too, which is the Malay name. The dog2 (talk) 03:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- @The dog2: I think sotong has a form in Chinese characters 蘇東 that seems to be somewhat common, so it makes it more obvious that it's adapted into the language. Of course, this is not the only thing that we look for, but for "kangkung", I'm not entirely convinced without more evidence, like a video of someone using it in their Hokkien or another Singaporean Hokkien speaker's validation. Maybe if @Neeweeg could chime in, that would be another opinion. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:20, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: To my knowledge, there are quite a few borrowed words in Singaporean Hokkien that originate from Malay, which most Singaporean Hokkien speakers, including non-Malay and non-English speakers, use frequently and understand, and "kangkung" or "kangkong" is one of them. Other words from Malay that we frequently use include, "salah" for wrong, "mata" for police, "tahan" for endure or bear, "roti" or "loti" for bread, "tuala" for towel, "kahwin" or "gao yin" for marry, "tolong" for please, "batu" for stone, "baru" or "balu" for just now or newly, "guli" or "goli" for marble, "suka" for like, "tilam" for mattress, "rugi" or "lugi" for losing out, "mana" for where, "patut" for correct or fair, "gaduh" or "ga lo" for argue, "kacau" or "kachiau" for disturb, "senang" for easy or relaxed or comfortable, "layang" for kite, "timun" or "ti bun" for cucumber, etc.. Many of these words have not been transliterated into Chinese characters. However, we sometimes use the proper Hokkien terms for these phrases, like what you've mentioned, èng-chhài. Neeweeg (talk) 03:36, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- @The dog2: I think sotong has a form in Chinese characters 蘇東 that seems to be somewhat common, so it makes it more obvious that it's adapted into the language. Of course, this is not the only thing that we look for, but for "kangkung", I'm not entirely convinced without more evidence, like a video of someone using it in their Hokkien or another Singaporean Hokkien speaker's validation. Maybe if @Neeweeg could chime in, that would be another opinion. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:20, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: I'd say it is definitely used by people who don't speak Malay or English. Whether it's borrowed into Hokkien or a Hokkien speaker just using a Malay word is debatable. A similar example is the word for squid. 鰇魚 is the proper Hokkien term, but it's not uncommon for people to refer it as "sotong" too, which is the Malay name. The dog2 (talk) 03:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- @The dog2: Hmm, I asked another Singaporean, and he said the term in Hokkien "should" be èng-chhài. Also this also only has 蕹菜. If it's considered "codeswitching", then I don't think it should be here. Is this term used by speakers who do not speak Malay or English? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 21:40, 30 May 2022 (UTC)