Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/冰淇淋

@Justinrleung, Wyang, Mar vin kaiser: Hi. The POJ spelling matching this entry at 臺灣閩南語常用詞辭典 is probably ái-sirh-khu-lín-bù /aɪ⁵³⁻⁴⁴ sɯ(ʔ)³²⁻⁵³ kʰu⁴⁴⁻³³ lin⁵³⁻⁴⁴ bu¹¹/? Is it right? The "m-" initial seems not standard in Min Nan, as per also Talk:bi-tá-bín. The Min Nan Wikipedians want "ái-su̍h-khu-lìm". --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:02, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

@Atitarev: It should be ái-sirh khu-lìn-mù as written in the module already. The m- initial is allowed if the rime doesn't have a nasal coda (e.g. mín is not allowed because in has a nasal coda.) Basically, mu is actually shorthand for muⁿ, which would be [mũ] in narrow IPA. Also, lìn needs to be in that tone to sandhi to 51, and the hyphen between sirh and khu is intentionally left out to show that there is no tone sandhi for sirh. Anyway, ái-sirh khu-lìn-mù should not be created as an entry because it's not likely to be attested anyway, since the rime -irh is not actually used in standard POJ. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:06, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Thanks for your response.

1. "mù" gives a module error, so if there is a way to spell it out so that /mu¹¹/ is produced in the IPA, this needs to be modified accordingly, or a more strict spelling should be used by the module, so that 'muⁿ can only be spelled as 'muⁿ, not as mu, if it's appropriate.
2. I think we should allow these forms, since they are verifiable, at least in dictionaries, and this is a mostly spoken dialect. In any case, I don't this term is different from many other Japanese borrowings (like words for motorbike, apartment, doll, vitamin, etc.), written only in POJ.
3. If the rime -irh is non-standard, the entry can be moved to a more standard or acceptable form and -irh used in the module input, the same can be said about hyphens.
4. I've created ái-sirh khu-lìn-mù to keep this discussion going, sort out spelling and pronunciation issues. I used the respelling "ái-sirh khu-lìn-bù" to make it work for now. The entry can be deleted later. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:09, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

@Atitarev:

1. mù gave an error because uⁿ isn't actually a rime that is normally used. I've fixed the module by allowing this additional rime.
2. This particular word is only verified in one dictionary so far, but this dictionary doesn't use POJ - it's using a modified form of Tâi-lô (using actual tone contours instead of tone marks/numbers). Other Japanese borrowings are more easily verifiable in other sources.
3. POJ simply can't deal with the rime -irh because it doesn't exist outside of borrowings in General Taiwanese.
4. I'm not sure why there is a need of creating the entry to keep the discussion going. It may be a little hasty. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:00, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Thanks for the response and improving the module. I have deleted the entry, I can't find anything similar. Perhaps, entries like o͘-lín-gió should be revisited. They are very hard to verify in any form. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:56, 28 July 2019 (UTC)