Appendix talk:HSK list of Mandarin words/Beginning Mandarin

We actually only list 8821 words, which was the number of words on the list prior to 2001. In 2001, 19 more words were added. Those words still need to be added to our list. A-cai 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Font size too small

the font size of the list is too small. Also, words should be listed vertically, don't use multiple columns. Chinese' readability on computers is limited anyway, and it should not artificially be made worse.

The font size is fine. If people have trouble reading they can zoom in like everyone else does when reading Chinese websites. Plus making the font artificially large would go against the wikt's CSS. Tooironic 07:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

duplicate entries

There were several duplicate entries which I removed. Later I found that http://www.chinese-forums.com/vocabulary/ also includes these, so it's probably the case that the same word is included several times with different meanings. I'm not sure it makes sense to include it in the list tough without something to differentiate the two entries. Foolip 14:23, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Duplicate entries are 上, 为, 了, 会, 分, 只, 叫, 呀, 哪, 啊, 回, 在, 地, 好, 对, 当, 往, 把, 站, 等, 花, 过, 过去, 还, 那, 那么, 里, 长 (2 of each), 下, 多, 得, 点 (3 of each).

Yep, the same issue is in Elementary Mandarin article. Maybe there's the same problem in the other two. I'll try to fix it later, but I'm not very sure too. Kolas 19:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Some duplicate entries have different pronunciations, and each pronunciation has their own meaning. Hence, some entries were listed twice in different positions. I've added those entries back and differentiated the entries with parenthesis of corresponding pinyins next to them. The entries with different meanings are much more difficult to deal with. Also, without more information, it is difficult to determine which meanings are required for Beginning Mandarin. Those I left alone.

Authentic List from HSK Organization

大家好！

does anyone have a link pointing to the original and authentic list by the HSK Committee? 谢谢！

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a simple question to zealots of corrections, how is easier to read 计量经济学

jìliàngjīngjìxué

or

jì-liàng-jīng-jì-xué?

Actually it should be jìliàng jīngjìxué. The rules of pinyin dictate that you seperate WORDS by SPACES. Stop adding hyphens. You're creating a lot of extra work to clean up after you. ---> Tooironic 13:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

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two questions:

1. since when econometrics is two words -- econo and metrics?
2. where can i read more about "the rules of pinyin", date, author, anything?

clean up after yourself, i create something nonexistent, hope there's no one holding your hands from adding pinyin everywhere it's absent, with or without hyphenes, somehow it didn't itch you when these were just han-zi (guess how to read look)

计量经济学 is a Mandarin word, not an English one. In Chinese it is divided into 计量 (lit. "measure") and 经济学 ("economics"). Knowing word boundaries will assist in adding spaces when typing pinyin. As for pinyin rules, it's common knowledge and knowable within one Google search [1]. If you have any more questions you can always leave me a message on my talk page. Cheers. ---> Tooironic 08:24, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

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1 do i understand you right that an English word "buffalo" immediately turns to two Chinese words "water" and "cow"? Or does it remain "buffalo" = shui-niu?

And if 计量 and 经济学 are two words, why does my dictionary gives it as one? Maybe my dictionary cheats me and i should do as you say?

2 my question abt pinyin was actually "where is it written i shouldn't write hyphens between syllables to mark them according to the quantity of hanzi?" Google doesn't answer it, so perhaps you can explain your own request towards my activity.

a person sees 计量经济学 and jì-liàng-jīng-jì-xué - something in his brain tells him which syllable is for which hanzi

a person sees jìliàngjīngjìxué and doesn't know how to read it, which is an artificial complication for people who start learning Chinese

is it an intention to make an impression "Chinese is so hard"? well, perhaps it's time to turn to "Chinese is easy and learns fast" concept

This is a dictionary, not a place for learning a language. I never said that 计量经济学 was two words, but rather that it has two components and thus should be written as jìliàng jīngjìxué. If you don't understand basic pinyin formatting perhaps you shouldn't be contributing here. ---> Tooironic 06:15, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

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• nah, sorry, but this is not a dictionary -- i was told so when tried to create a list of Western names in Chinese, so this is _not_ a dictionary

• next, if you never said "计量经济学 was two words" then who wrote this: "In Chinese it is divided into 计量 (lit. "measure") and 经济学 ("economics")"? Hope we won't discuss "math = count + learn" or "to phone = hit + electric + voice". One word is always just one word => jì-liàng-jīng-jì-xué -- econometrics.

• If you look at my IP, then you probably realize, the question of phonetic transcription isn't a big issue in my case -- see what i've done >>> a person willing to learn Basic Chinese comes to this page and sees how to read hanzi, instead of staring at the unknown symbols.

• is it the jealousy which makes you say "you shouldn't be contributing here"? -- maybe you should talk to "heart + manage + learn + ist" about this (心理学家).

• No need to resort to name-calling. Either contribute something worthwhile to this project or prepared to be blocked. ---> Tooironic 02:14, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

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• name calling vs "i've got the power"? what name were you called by the way? seeing things, huh?
• sure, block me as you claim yourself a judge to detemine what worthwhile is -- undoubtedly you are a number one in "worthwhile list", but why is it me who adds reading to symbols then?

• You've been blocked for one month due to your constant vandalism. Don't say you weren't warned. ---> Tooironic 13:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

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vandalized what?

Move templates to a note section

"intermedate mandarin", "advanced mandarin" etc templates are quite useful, but they really look out of place at the beginning of the definition (when I first saw them, I really wondered what it meant). Can I request a bot to move them to "note" section and change the template text to make it somewhat more explicit (somethink like "The HSK considers this word to be necessary for mastery of mandarin at intermediate level."--Zolo 10:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Format

@Kc kennylau the order of trad. simp. is incorrect, not following the usual convention. It should be trad. then simpl, then pinyin. Other things: 字 terms can also be 词 and there are three other lists: Elementary Mandarin, Intermediate Mandarin and Advanced Mandarin. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:51, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

@Atitarev I've only dealt with Beginning Mandarin, so in the three other lists zi and ci are still merged, you can help with that if you want, because it would cost me a lot of time. Moreover, in the original wordlists, zi and ci are separated. And I don't think it matters if trad comes first or simp comes first. --kc_kennylau (talk) 03:54, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

@Kc kennylau I am quite active with other things, including other Chinese entries and translations. I'm not putting any pressure on you, just mentioning that the other lists differ in format. :) They can be done later. It's better to change the order (trad./simpl.), since that's the way adopted by other editors and that's how they appear in translations, if you don't have time for this, I will change it later. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:08, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

@Atitarev Well, changing the order can be done quite easily using regex, so I'll do it now. But for the other lists, I'll have to do them later. --kc_kennylau (talk) 14:55, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

@Atitarev Done. --kc_kennylau (talk) 14:59, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Adding HSK grade to entries

Just as Kanji entries do, the HSK level of the words' meanings could also be added. --Backinstadiums (talk) 06:55, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Apparently, some words do have such a tag (不僅) --Backinstadiums (talk) 09:34, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Meanig(s) of words

By definition it's a list of words, not just characters; therefore, how can we know which of the several meanings of a word are to be categorized in such a level? --Backinstadiums (talk) 08:55, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

We don't. Such information is not released AFAIK. ---> Tooironic (talk) 16:59, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Appendix:HSK_list_of_Mandarin_words

Regarding Appendix:HSK_list_of_Mandarin_words, except for the first level, the rest presents first the simplified word, then traditional in parentheses, which as far as I can tell is the reverse approach taken here to avoid Simplified redirects. Furthermore, the advanced level shows a formatting error, starting at letter "w", repeating "Template:l" in a column several times. --Backinstadiums (talk) 08:38, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums: What's happening on the page for the advanced level is that the "post-expand include size" is being exceeded, so some templates cannot be shown, and they are shown as links. I don't totally understand what that means, but I guess it's something about the storage size of the text in the templates. The problem could probably be fixed by splitting the page up. — Eru·tuon 08:16, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

@Erutuon: The words starting with the letter "x" do not show up, can you find them? Secondly, can the order be changed so that the traditional character appears first and the simplified one in parentheses? Can a raw .txt file of all of them be created? --Backinstadiums (talk) 08:15, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums: I don't understand. I can see the words starting in x in all of the lists. You just have to go to section x in the table of contents.

A text file could maybe be created with Module:sandbox. I experimented with processing a few lines. — Eru·tuon 19:03, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Okay, see this revision. Text file, in order pinyin, traditional or both, simplified. Is that what you wanted? — Eru·tuon 19:20, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Oops, I should clarify, that's only the Advanced words. They are easier to process than the Beginning words because they have simple wikilinks and the traditional and simplified versions are both in the wikitext. — Eru·tuon 19:30, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

@Erutuon: Thanks for your help. Since HSK levels are not added in entries, for the learner to identify them those entries could alternatively be indexed to its respective categories of HSK levels, information which would show up at the bottom together with the rest of the categoreries; therefore, can those words be indexed automatically to HSK level categories (which are not created yet)? --Backinstadiums (talk) 19:58, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums: You keep saying in multiple places that HSK level is not marked in entries. That's incorrect. If you look at word lists in Appendix:HSK list of Mandarin words starting from Appendix:HSK list of Mandarin words/Beginning Mandarin, you will find that majority of terms belong to the category. But if they don't, the answer is simple, nobody added them yet. E.g. 愛人／爱人 (àirén) has a category template: {{zh-cat|Beginning|...}}, which puts the words into Category:Beginning Mandarin.. No deus ex machina, somebody has to add those categories, as simple as that. The Chinese HSK coverage is way better at Wiktionary than Japanese JLPT at Wiktionary --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:42, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Thanks for replying. Even as an amateur, I am used to working with corpora databases, using regular expresions, macros and the like thanks to automatic or systematic approaches, so it strikes me the manual orientation of the editing process in Wiktionary. Ideally, "throwing" a term into a category should immediately and automatically adding a label of such a category to the entry itself; which would encourage users' participation editing. --Backinstadiums (talk) 09:06, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums: There are automated things and manual things. People who created the HSK lists in Appendix:HSK list of Mandarin words are not necessarily the same people who created entries. Entries are created manually over time by people who know those words. I have tried to add categories to word I created myself but I'm sure I have missed some and I only did a fraction of those words. Adding a word to a category is easy but someone has to do it. If you're used to automated approaches, why don't you write a bot, which adds missing HSK categories to all the terms on the list? No? Sorry to disappoint you, no deux ex machina again :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 09:14, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Atitarev: I am being serious. I still do not fully grasp info. like https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Help:Category. Innovative ideas and their implementation by "technicians" are two sides of the same coin. For example, I do not know enough VBA to create a macro, but ponder about learner-oriented improvements --Backinstadiums (talk) 09:23, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums: If you want to use Wiktionary for learning Chinese, you can still do. The lists in Appendix:HSK list of Mandarin words/Beginning Mandarin are pretty accurate in levels. It's just entries themselves sometimes miss the categories. You can actively help by adding categories. Everybody is a volunteer here. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 09:50, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Can the names of the categories be changed into HSK1/2/3/4? Those are easier to find just with a quick glance. --Backinstadiums (talk) 15:59, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

• Just bear in mind that our categories may not be entirely accurate and up-to-date with the current HSK lists. In fact, the whole thing is in desperate need of an audit.. ---> Tooironic (talk) 06:32, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

@Tooironic: what'd you mean by "the whole thing"? Secondly, Can the names of the categories be changed into HSK1/2/3/4?--Backinstadiums (talk) 14:08, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

I mean we need to check to see if the words we have are the same as the latest official lists. As for the category renaming, you would need to put it to a vote. ---> Tooironic (talk) 14:57, 13 November 2017 (UTC)