Wiktionary talk:Lao transliteration

To do: tone rules

This appendix and Thai lack info on how tones are determined based on consonant classes, "dead" or "alive", long and short syllables. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

That's because the closest things Lao has to standard transliteration schemes all don't include tone information.

Being in Laos now I feel the most useful transliterations in Wiktionary are the ones actually used in Laos, deficient though they may be. (In fact there are both English-like and French like ones in common use. The French ones are on all the street signs for instance.

A more complete scheme should be used and standardized in our pronunciation sections though.

One more point to note is that Lao has undergone spelling reforms whereby it's now almost totally phonetic but was formerly etymological, like Thai and English. When we include more entries in pre-1970s spellings any phonetic transliteration used for modern Lao spellings won't work for those. — hippietrail (talk) 06:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

I dunno, where in Laos are you? I've seen signs that transliterate according to tons of different systems, even Hebrew-style for the benefit of Israeli tourists. On the same street in Vientiane I've seen multiple spellings, for example Thanon Settathirath, which I've seen spelt as differently as Setatilat. The ad hoc systems are really of no use to use, we need to choose something phonetic that reflects the tones of the Standard dialect and stick to it. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:47, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm in Vientiane where I've been for 18 days now. Yes there are informally tons of ways to transliterate but I'm talking about the "official" ones on the government road signs, not ones shopkeepers have made themselves. But yes this is the French system. The other not totally ad-hoc system is basically the RTGS of Thailand system adapted.

One more bit of fun - there is no Standard dialect! There are even a differing number of tones in the north and south and unsettled debate over how many there are in the capital. Apparently Vientian has had successive waves of immigration from different parts of the country which affect what's dominant here first one way and then the other. I think some people just avoid this by choosing Luang Prabang as more stable for use as a "standard".

I think we're already using more ad-hoc systems for Lao here in Wiktionary than I've seen in Laos, definitely in "official" places at least.

Here's one very interesting page I've found with a good section debunking the supposedly deterministic rules for deciding the tone of a syllable: http://people.w3.org/rishida/scripts/lao/

I'm happy to go out photographing street signs and signs on public buildings if you like. — hippietrail (talk) 07:58, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

It would be more beneficial to design a transliteration scheme, which includes tone marks, a combination of LC (Library of Congress) for consonants and IPA adopted at Sealang Lao dictionary. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:23, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Well feel free to add it to any modern and obsolete Lao entries I add once you've designed it. — hippietrail (talk) 09:23, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Automatic transliteration

@Wyang Can Lao transliteration be automated as well? Or Khmer, Thai, even if not 100% phonetically and without tone indication (for Lao and Thai, Khmer is toneless)? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:12, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, they can be... There are too many things to do! Wyang (talk) 01:34, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Let me know if I can help, I can at least add the data for the module(s) :) --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:45, 11 June 2014 (UTC)