Wiktionary talk:Requests for moves, mergers and splits
We need some procedure for archiving this page. -- Prince Kassad 10:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
- IMO when a discussion's over, or some time thereafter, archive using
{{archived}}(or a specialized template (not yet created AFAIK) à la rfc-archived, rfd-archived, rfv-archived, and feedback-archived, if desired) to the talkpage of one of the pages being discussed, with a link to that archive from the talkpage of each of the other pages being discussed. Thoughts?—msh210℠ (talk) 15:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC){{rfm-archived}}(smile). Mglovesfun (talk) 15:35, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
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If this page is to exist, a consistent name would be Wiktionary:Requests for cleanup/other. I still don't think it is necessary though. Conrad.Irwin 21:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
- Wiktionary:Requests for cleanup/other would indicate that it would be for cleanup, rather than just for moves, merges and splits, and would also indicate that RFC would only be for entries and this page would only be for special pages. Not a very helpful title, IMO. --Yair rand 22:04, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
- I quite like this title and we already have a few redirects pointing her. I don't know about "necessary", but I'd rather have page move discussion here. Previously, pages like the ones above were nominated for deletion, even when the nominator didn't want the article to be deleted! Mglovesfun (talk) 16:58, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
"Requests for moves, mergers and splits" is the current name of the current page. I find it too long. Wiktionary:Requests for manipulation seems a better title, because here we list requests for placement of existing pages, either by renaming, splitting or merging — a list of actions that is already explained at the introduction — rather than deleting or adding contents. --Daniel. 20:38, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
- As pointed out by others, manipulation is much too vague. I'd like someone to manipulate my spine, but that's another story. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:00, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
- Here, the "manipulation" would be related to Wiktionary pages, of course. By the way, the titles "Beer parlour", "Grease pit" and even "Requests for verification" are not 100% accurate without their introductions and some more context. In addition, I'd like very much to place Transwiki requests at WT:RFM. --Daniel. 04:11, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
No consensus, striking. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:24, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Also WT:MOVE now redirs here. Cheers, Facts707 (talk) 17:24, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
- Is the procedure supposed to be the same, leave for a month to resolve, tag and wait for a week, then cut and paste discussion to the respective talk page? —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 01:32, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Old resolved discussions
[edit]There are a few old discussions I have come across here (for example zero width character and willfulness wilfulness that seem to be completely resolved, but the headings haven't been struckthrough. In such cases should I strikethrough the headings, or leave that to admins? - excarnateSojourner (talk|contrib) 06:01, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- If you see this, you should definitely feel free to strike them through. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 15:50, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- Great, thanks. - excarnateSojourner (talk|contrib) 20:06, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits (permalink).
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Because moving a single page and renaming a language are actually very different processes. Jewle V (talk) 16:09, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- Not really: Moving a language entails moving all category pages in that language and/or merge all pages with pages of another language. Thadh (talk) 16:18, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Jewle V, Thadh: I'm pretty sure that when Jewle V wrote renaming a language, he meant changing the language. In this case:
- The request should be to split off "Wiktionary:Requests for changing the language".
- Thadh's remark is beside the point.
- Notifying the other interested parties: @Kwamikagami, Benwing2, Chuck Entz.
- If we do make the split to RFM, what should the page name and template be? I suggest WT:RFL and {{rfl}}. I suggest this new template record current and proposed, existing language code, and be applicable to both language sections and senses. --RichardW57 (talk) 10:47, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- If we make the split, I think there'll be a flood of requests (some in batches of about 50) over a few months and then things will go quiet. --RichardW57 (talk) 10:57, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Huh? How is my remark beside the point? Say you rename the Foo language by Bar language. You'll have to move CAT:Foo lemmas to CAT:Bar lemmas. If you merge the Foo and Bar languages, you'll have to merge CAT:Foo lemmas and CAT:Bar lemmas. If you instead split the Foobar language into the Foo and Bar languages, you split CAT:Foobar lemmas into CAT:Foo lemmas and CAT:Bar lemmas. Thadh (talk) 14:10, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Thadh: Because I don't think that is what @Jewle V was talking about. If it was, we are not 'in this case', and your remark is not beside the point. --RichardW57 (talk) 23:17, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Jewle V, Thadh: I'm pretty sure that when Jewle V wrote renaming a language, he meant changing the language. In this case:
- @Jewle_V, Chuck Entz: We've already had some of this discussion at #อย above.
- One big difference between moving a page and changing the language is that links instantly completely break. With moving a page, hard redirects may remain. --RichardW57 (talk) 10:31, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- A bit of history: before Lua, language codes were handled by templates named after them, so you used
{{en}}where we now use other templates with a language code parameter. In those days, changing the language Foo with language code xyz to the language Bar with the language code xzy involved actually moving the[[Template:xyz]template to[[Template:xzy]]. After we retired all the language-code templates (which freed up an enormous number of two-letter and three-letter template names and aliases, by the way), we still kept language-code and language-name matters at rfm because none of the existing venues made sense as an alternative. - It comes close to making sense, since renaming a language could be interpreted as moving the content into new language sections, categories, etc., and changing a language code means moving the templates and modules named after it to new names. When we decide that varieties of a given language are really independent languages, that's indeed splitting the old language, and deciding that a separate language is really just part of another one is indeed merging the two languages.
- Renaming rfm would be a really bad idea, since we do lots of things here, like moving, merging and splitting of entries, that have nothing to do with language names or codes. If we decide to split off this function, there are a few possibilities I can think of for naming of the new page:
- Looking at what kind of places are symbolic of interaction between sovereign international entities in the same way that beer parlour and tea room are symbolic of gathering for discussions (maybe an embassy or the UN?), or of interaction between people of different languages and/or nationalities.
- Basing it somehow on Language treatment, which is where these matters get documented.
- Coming up with a name based on a literal explanation of the function of the new page in the same way all the RFD, RFM and RFV pages are named. "Requests for renaming language" doesn't work, since the function involves specific languages rather than language as a whole, and it involves a lot more than just changing language names.
- Chuck Entz (talk) 18:58, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- And a subpage? Fay Freak (talk) 03:28, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Split so that language name / code requests have their own page. IMO RFM is overdue for a split, and this seems like the best place to start. — excarnateSojourner (talk · contrib) 08:20, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
- See also a currently active Beer Parlour discussion about splitting RFM. — excarnateSojourner (ta·co) 06:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- Sorted - we made Wiktionary:Language treatment requests == — This unsigned comment was added by Denazz (talk • contribs) at 12:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC).