User talk:MiiCii

FVS

Please must use FVS characters in order to provide correct letter forms under the Unicode standards creating Manchu lemmas. Please use templates (of inheriting, derivation, etc.) with correct language codes. 请别敲与语言无关的话。谢谢。 LibCae (talk) 09:18, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@LibCae 谢谢阁下的提醒，我以后会注意的，实在抱歉过了这么长时间才回复您的信息。这几天我和用户User:TongcyDai在中文维基百科上讨论创建满文的词条是否应该使用自由选择变体符FVS，对方认为不需要使用FVS。刚才我咨询了对Unicode熟悉的友人，对方说为了字符的标准，不需要加FVS，援引对方的话说理论上按照最新的标准，默认情况都是需要正常变形的，不用加任何FVS。这一点我以前也没有意识到，建议按照不加FVS的版本输入。--MiiCii (talk) 11:27, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

现在看来这样确实是没错的！我们只是需要等待一个正确显示字形的 Noto 无衬线字体。请原谅我之前一直没有找到合适的线上语气来沟通。谢谢！我感到惭愧并希望尽到自己更多的努力。:) LibCae (talk) 06:38, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

没事的，您太客气了。相信随着时间的推移和技术的进步，满文字体的问题能够得到解决。祝阁下编安。--MiiCii (talk) 07:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@MiiCii: 抱歉打扰您了，我想请问一下这是否意味着，ᡶ᠋ᠣᠨᠵᡳᠮᠪᡳ应当移动回ᡶᠣᠨᠵᡳᠮᠪᡳ，与此同时不必再使用重定向，并且以后所有含有fi, fu, fo组合的满文单词，都不必使用FVS1来使字符f正确变形了？--跳跳猫 (talk) 07:13, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

@跳跳猫: 您好，您说的很对。以后对于含fi, fu, fo组合的满文单词，没有必要再使用FVS1了。--MiiCii (talk) 10:27, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

FVS-2

Per the discussion in beer parlour back in January/February, I don't think we should be using FVS characters for Manchu. RcAlex36 (talk) 18:34, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

I have read the discussion you mentioned above. Maybe we should enlarge the number of Manchu lemmas first and discuss about the using of FVS characters afterwards.MiiCii (talk) 03:25, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@RcAlex36 Thank you for your attention, you've got a point there. It is not necessary to use FVS for Manchu script.--MiiCii (talk) 11:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Spamming people's talk pages

Please note that people's Babel boxes will tell you what languages they know. You don't need to leave the same message on lots of people's talk pages who clearly don't know the languages you're interested in. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 17:46, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠨ

I believe you should not delete that example sentence.

It is short, natural, has a clear context, and uses no additional jargon. The meaning of this sentence is also inoffensive—it is not surprising if a native Manchu speaker uttered this sentence.

If you insist that this sentence should not appear in Wiktionary, as an mnc-3 user, please at least add another example sentence (or a quotaion) that meets the criteria. --TongcyDai (talk) 15:31, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

I have understood what you said and I am going to recall my edition. Thank you for your attention. MiiCii (talk) 15:36, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Manual transliterations

Hi - please stop adding these. If you think Manchu transliterations should be linked to then post a request on the Beer Parlour, but manually adding them all yourself just creates a big clean-up job for someone else, as it undermines the whole point of having automatic transliteration in the first place. Theknightwho (talk) 00:08, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, please please don't add things like {{l|mnc|ᡝᡩᡠᠨ ᡩᡝᡴᡩᡝᠮᠪᡳ|tr=edun dekdembi, "a wind arise"}}. It should be {{l|mnc|ᡝᡩᡠᠨ ᡩᡝᡴᡩᡝᠮᠪᡳ|t=a wind arise}}. Could you please go through all of your additions and correct these? Putting glosses in the transliteration parameter - again - just creates issues that have to be cleaned up by someone else. Theknightwho (talk) 00:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

One last thing - please don't add things like {{l|mnc|ᡠᠨᡩᠠᠨᠠᡥᠠᠪᡳ|tr=undanahabi, "{{inflection of|mnc|ᠠᡤᠠ ᡩᠠᠮᠪᡳ||present perfect}}"}} - inflection templates aren't designed to be nested like this, and it messes up the categorisation. Theknightwho (talk) 00:16, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay - last last thing: an entry like ᡨᠠᠯᠮᠠᠨ
ᠮᡠᡴᡩᡝᠮᠪᡳ (talman mukdembi) is simply not in an acceptable state, as there are obvious formatting errors. You need to slow down and be more careful. Theknightwho (talk) 00:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Theknightwho Hi! Thank you so much for your advice. I'm very guilty that I didn't understand these rules before and hope to understand them. I'm willing to go through all of my additions and correct the problems. However, my account is currently unable to edit pages on Wiktionary. I'll appreciate if you give me a chance to unblock my account so I could correct them. Best regards. --MiiCii (talk) 00:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Block

Going through your contributions, I noticed that you were clearly using an unauthorised bot to mass-add these entries all at once, since at one point you added more than 20 entries within a minute. This also explains why there were very obvious formatting errors in some of them, which any user would have spotted. This is not acceptable, as it is a clear breach of WT:BOT which is designed to stop precisely the problems that you were causing: namely, the mass-creation low-quality or problematic content. I have also deleted those newly created entries, because there were so many issues with them that they need to be redone from scratch: in addition to the problems laid out in the thread above, I also spotted that you had incorrectly glossed many verbs as nouns, you had added many non-lemma inflections as synonyms, a bunch of reference sections were empty, and you used nonstandard headings such as "Alternatives". All of these would be more work to correct than to simply start over.

I am prepared to unblock if and only if you (a) agree not to do this again (unless you apply for bot status under WT:BOT#Process are are successful), and (b) you agree to be more careful going forward. I strongly suggest that you seek guidance on adding entries at the WT:Information desk or WT:Beer parlour, too. Theknightwho (talk) 00:39, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Theknightwho Hello, frankly speaking I don't know how to use a bot and hope to learn . The methods I edited pages are opening multiple tabs, editing them, the format were copy-pasted so there are very serious errors in some of them, and then saving them one by one in a short period of time using hotkeys on the keyboard. All edits I made are done manually by typing on the keyboard.

I agree to be more careful and quite willing to learn how to use the bot correctly. --MiiCii (talk) 01:03, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

In addition, could you please list some entries that have glossed verbs as nouns incorrectly? In this way I can correct the edits and avoid making the same mistake in the future in order to do correct edits. Best regards.--MiiCii (talk) 01:13, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@MiiCii Alright, I understand - I'll unblock you on that basis.

As an example of the issues: you glossed ᡠᠰᡳᡥᠠ
ᡤᡝᡵᡳᡧᡝᠮᠪᡳ (usiha gerišembi, verb) as "stars are dim", ᡠᠰᡳᡥᠠ
ᡶᡳᠰᡳᠨ (usiha fisin, adverb) as "stars are dense", ᡠᠰᡳᡥᠠ
ᠰᡝᡵᡳ (usiha seri, proper noun) as "stars are sparse", and ᡠᠰᡳᡥᠠ
ᡤᡝᡵᡳ
ᡤᠠᡵᡳ (usiha geri gari, adverb) as "stars are dim". None of these sound like verbs, adverbs or proper nouns, so at least two of them have to be mistakes. The first and fourth also have the same gloss, but are apparently different parts of speech, too. I also see ᡨᡠᡤᡳ
ᠪᠠᠨᠵᡳᠮᠪᡳ (tugi banjimbi, “the clouds are rising”, verb), ᡨᡠᡤᡳ
ᠰᡝᡴᡨᡝᠮᠪᡳ (tugi sektembi, “clouds gather”, verb), ᡨᡠᡤᡳ
ᠵᡝᡴᠰᡝ (tugi jekse, “there is a void between the clouds which are red”, verb), among many more which definitely don't sound like verbs from the way you have glossed them. Theknightwho (talk) 01:45, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@MiiCii I am very concerned about the reliability of your edits. Can you give me detailed information where you are getting the following from:

1. The sources for the large number of translations of Chinese place names into Manchu, e.g. Shihua, Tongchuan, Tiananmen Square, Queshan, etc.
2. The sources for the translations of all the cardinal and ordinal numbers into Manchu that you added, e.g. [1] for fifty-seventh and [2] for ninety-six.
3. The reasons for the numerous page renames you did such as [3].
4. Changes such as [4] to the translation of water in Xibe.

If you can't provide good sources for these changes, I'm going to have to revert all the changes. Benwing2 (talk) 04:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Benwing2 I promise editing without reliability will never happen again.

1. The translations of Chinese place names, some of them were found in historical records and archives. However I must admit that the other were just translated according to the rules of translating from Chinese to Manchu. So please revert all the changes about Chinese place names. I'll edit only the places with certain sources then.
2. For cardinal numbers, Enlarged and Revised Dictionary of Manchu Words, Vol.7, Category of Literature, Genre of Numbers 1st/2nd.(han -i araha nonggime toktobuha manju gisun -i buleku bithe, nadaci debtelin, šu tacin -i šošohon, ton -i hacin, uju/jai / 御製增訂清文鑑·卷七/文學部/數目類第一/第二) and Pentaglot Dictionary(han -i araha sunja hacin -i hergen kamciha manju gisun -i buleku bithe/御製五體清文鑑) have recorded 1-10, 15, 20-100 (this part only contains multiples of ten), 10^3-10^24 (this part contains one word for each multiplication of 10, 10^5-10^8 have duplicates). For numeral numbers, the 2 dictionaries mentioned above only recorded 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the text part, while there are Volume numbers from 1 to 32 of Enlarged and Revised Dictionary of Manchu Words at the beginning of each volume of these books. In addition, Manchu is an agglutinative language. When expressing cardinal numbers such as 96, it is similar to English and represents each decimal digit from front to back, for example "dehi uyun gūsa (49 banners in Qing ruled Inner Mongolia, "dehi uyun" means 49, consists of 40+9)" appeared in Enlarged and Revised Dictionary of Manchu Words, Vol.3. But when expressing 120, it is different from the English One hundred and twenty, there is no need to add "and" in Manchu. For instance, a book called "Emu Tanggū Orin Sakda -i Gisun Sarkiyan". (百二老人語錄, it can found by the name Emu tanggû orin sakda-i gisun sarkiyan or Emu tanggu orin saġda-i gisun sargiyn in the website of National Library of Australia). When it comes to ordinal numbers like 57th, just change the last digit into an ordinal number.
3. The reasons for the numerous page renames are revolving around the question of whether to use FVS(free variation selectors) to show the font correctly on iOS and Andrioid mobile devices. In 2023, I asked the user User:TongcyDai on the Chinese Wikipedia whether the FVS should be used when creating Manchu entries. TongcyDai believed that there was no need to use them otherwise it will cause confusion between feminine gender and masculine gender of the script. I am also worried about whether there is a way to remedy it. Now it seems that undoing my previous edits about FVS is the best way.
4. As for the noun water in Xibe is written as "muku" or "muke", wait me for hours. I'm about to go to the National Library of China to confirm through Xibe dictionaries and treatises.
5. In addition, the Manchu translations of the former Soviet republics also need to be deleted because they have no source.

Thank you for your questions and valuable advices. I will devote myself to editing Wikipedia with a better attitude and correct sources.--MiiCii (talk) 07:02, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@MiiCii Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I appreciate you taking the time to write this out and committing to making sure the entries you add are reliable. I'll revert the placename-related changes. Benwing2 (talk) 07:21, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Benwing2 About 7 hours ago, I looked up how the word water is written in Xibe referring to 3 relevant dictionaries and treatises in the Chinese Ethnic Minority Language Literature Reading Room of the National Library of China.

1. 1994, Working Committee of Ethnic Language and Writing of Xinjiang, ᠨᡝᡞ
   ᡫᠣᠨ
   ᡣᠣᠣᠯᡞᡢᡤᠠ
   ᠰᡞᠪᡝ
   ᡧᡠ
   ᡨᠠᠴᡞᠨ
   ᡤᡞᠰᡠᠨ ᡞ
   ᠪᡠᠯᡝᡣᡠ
   ᠪᡞᡨᡥᡝ(nei fon koolingga sibe šu tacin gisun -i buleku bithe) [Modern Xibe Literary Language Orthographic Dictionary/现代锡伯文学语言正字词典], Ürümqi: ISBN:9787228020546, page 507: This dictionary is only written in vertical Xibe script just by listing words without explaing the meaning of them neither in Chinese nor in Xibe. The word ᠮᡠᡣᡝ(muke) appears on page 507. The order of vowels in Xibe happens to be similar to that in English, with a, e, i, o, u plus ū. According to reading pages 507 and 508, which contain words starting with ᠮᡠ᠊ (mu-), no words initializing with ᠮᡠᡣᡠ (muku) or itself were found. On page 508, ᠮᡠᡣᡞᠶᡝᡫᡞ (mukiyefi) is directly followed by ᠮᡠᡥᡝᠯᡞᠶᡝᠨ (muheliyen). If there were words starting with muko-, muku-, mukū-, they would be placed between "mukiyefi" and "muheliyen", but no word recorded in that range.
2. 2009, Šetuken(佘吐肯), ᠰᡞᠪᡝ
   ᡤᡞᠰᡠᠨ ᡞ
   ᡤᡞᠰᡠᠨ
   ᡣᠣᡠᠯᡞ ᡞ
   ᡥᠠᡫᡠᠮᡦᡞ
   ᠯᡝᡠᠯᡝᠨ(sibe gisun -i gisun kooli -i hafumpi leolen) [General Introduction of Xibe Grammar/锡伯语语法通论], Ürümqi: Xinjiang People's Publishing House, ISBN:9787228128433, page 329: The order of the glossary in the appendix of this book follows the positive sequence after transliterating Xibe script into Latin alphabet. On page 329, it was showed that the word water is written in Xibe as ᠮᡠᡣᡝ(muke), corresponding to Chinese meaning 水.
3. 2021, He Zhongde(贺忠德), Yiketan(伊克坦), Guo Dexing(郭德兴) et al., ᠨᡞᡣᠠᠨ
   ᠰᡞᠪᡝ
   ᡤᡞᠰᡠᠨ
   ᠪᡠᠯᡝᡣᡠ
   ᠪᡞᡨᡥᡝ(nikan sibe gisun buleku bithe) [Chinese-Xibe Dictionary/汉锡词典], 1st edition, Ürümqi: Xinjiang People's Publishing House, Shanghai: The Commercial Press, p1654: This dictionary is for searching the corresponding meanings in Xibe through Chinese, so the vocabulary is arranged in the order of Chinese Pinyin meanings. On page 1654, the first translation corresponding to the Chinese 水(shuǐ) is the Xibe ᠮᡠᡣᡝ(muke). It is recorded on page 1656 that ᠮᡠᡣᡝ
   ᡝᠶᡝᠨ(muke eyen) corresponds to the Chinese 水流(shuǐliú), which represents the meaning of current; waterflow. Page 1657 records ᠮᡠᡣᡝ
   ᠶᠣᡥᠣᠷᠣᠨ(muke yohoron), which corresponds to the Chinese 水渠(shuǐqú), representing the meaning of canal; aqueduct.

I have contacted with a Xibe L1 speaker born in Qapqal, Xinjiang, he said that in Xibe spoken language, it is pronunced like "muku", but is written as "muke".

In addition, "wind" is translated as ᡠᡩᡠᠨ in Xibe currently, the contributor has given the reference of this book. 1986, Li Shulan(李树兰), Zhong Qian(仲谦), 中国少数民族语言简志丛书·锡伯语简志(Zhōngguó Shàoshù Mínzú Yǔyán Jiǎnzhì Cóngshū, Xībóyǔ Jǐanzhì) [Series of Brief Chronicles of Chinese Minority Languages, Brief Chronicles of the Xibe Language], Beijing: The Ethnic Publishing House. I need to check whether the contents were written in Xibe script or IPA, if I have opportunity to read it. If it was written in Xibe script and recorded the ᡠᡩᡠᠨ(udun), then the page should be reserved. If the contents was written in IPA, then the discussion of moving page is recommended.

On page 34 of Modern Xibe Literary Language Orthographic Dictionary, page 296 of General Introduction of Xibe Grammar and page 527 of Chinese-Xibe Dictionary, ᡝᡩᡠᠨ(edun) is recorded. Among them, the latter two of them give the meaning of 风(fēng) in Chinese explicitly, which corresponds to wind in English. The first book only lists how words are written, without explaining their meanings. On page 81 and 82 of Modern Xibe Literary Language Orthographic Dictionary, three of the words beginning with ᡠᡩᡠ᠊(udu-)are listed, they are ᡠᡩᡠ(udu), ᡠᡩᡠᡩᡝ(udude) and ᡠᡩᡠᡩᡠ(ududu), without ᡠᡩᡠᠨ(udun). Therefore, it remains to be investigated whether the word ᡠᡩᡠᠨ (udun) appears in previously published books.

I would very appreciate if you correct my English grammatical errors and fallacies on Xibe and Manchu. Best Regards.