User talk:CeNobiteElf

Long-due welcome

I am surprised your talk page is still empty. Let me take this opportunity to welcome you to en:WT and thanks for your contributions so far. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 23:47, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanx :) I just take an empty talk page as a sign that I haven't stepped on anyone else's toes yet :P

CeNobiteElf 00:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Laggend en so

Haai CeNobiteElf,

Nice to see someone pick up Afrikaans. I have been putting some Afrikaans at nl.wikt and I ran into a bit of a problem with Afrikaans verbs. Some of them seem to have a present participle, say "Laggend het hy gesê: whatever" but for many of them I can find very little attestation or even what form they take. Particularly if the corresponding Dutch verb has a -t or -d that dropped out in Afrikaans that sometimes comes back, sometimes does not and so for me it is guesswork what it should be. Any wysheid?

Jcwf 00:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I actually don't know how to best answer that... The thing is that the present participle is almost always used adjectivally or adverbially (barring some idioms and figures of speech) and as such some sources and dictionaries don't bother calling them participles and just state them as the adjectival or adverbial form of a verb, even though to a linguist they'd just be different uses of the present participle, for example lag from the WAT (Woordeboek of the Afrikaanse Taal) "lag I ww., het gelag; byv. en byw. laggende, laggend." (byv. = adjective, byw. = adverb).

The present participle can be regularly formed with the infinitive +(e)nd (adverb) and +(e)nde (attributive adjective), sometimes (not common though) just +d and +de (can't think of an example right now) and sometimes it can be irregular (especially in irregular verbs). Examples:

• groei -> groeiend(e)
• raak -> rakend(e) (this is actually one of the few that has a kind of verbal meaning, but its usage is rare)
• redeneer -> redenerend(e)
• soen -> soenend(e)
• seën -> seënend(e)
• grap -> grappend(e)
• hê -> hebbend(e) (pretty dated, and you'll probably only encounter hebbend as a suffix)

Though this won't always make sense or be applicable for all verbs, as you've probably noticed. Anyway, that's a bridge I'll cross when I actually start looking into that af-verb template on here...

CeNobiteElf 10:00, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Baie dankie,

In a way I feel a bit better about it: it wasn't just me fighting my Dutch bias :-0. I suppose one way of dealing with it is just idiomize it: abolish the present participle and simply mention 'derived adjectives and adverbs' whenever they do exist. I had not done that, see nl:lag/vervoeging but I'll be happy to change that over if you decide that is the best way to go.

Jcwf 11:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Nah, it's still the present participle, just isn't really used as participles are used in other languages. So I think it should still be mentioned as such, just with a note somewhere (Afrikaans appendix?) about the usage.

CeNobiteElf 20:14, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Format

Your entries are missing a ==language== section. (presumably ==Afrikaans==) SemperBlotto (talk) 10:04, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

• facepalm* Yes... editing quickly, so didn't notice at all. Thanks! :) -CeNobiteElf (talk) 10:07, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Afrikaans

Ek is bly dat jy 'n moedertaalsprekster van die Afrikaanse taal is, en dat jy dra by baie. As jy kan sien, ek praat nie dit goed nie... maar genoeg. As jy nodig enige hulp, jy moenie huiwer! Vra op enige tyd. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:34, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Diminutive for halte

Do you know what the correct diminutive for halte is? Wiktionary says haltjie but I've also seen haltetjie. tbm (talk) 04:29, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

The correct dimminutive for halte would be haltetjie. Based on the search results, I'd say haltjie is a poetic form of haltetjie as I can't find any attestations outside of poetry that would indicate it's simply a dated or archaic form. Haltjie primarily appears in an Uys Krige poem titled Tram-ode, where it is used to refer to a train station called Dwaal in the Karoo:

Daar is 'n haltjie, Dwaal,
te midde van die vaal
godverlore dor Karoo.

CeNobiteElf (talk) 22:25, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I fixed the entry. tbm (talk) 02:25, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

BTW, did you receive the email I sent you via this site a few days ago? tbm (talk) 03:49, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

I did, and I regret to inform you that I'm not really interested in coordinating something like that.

Also right now the Afrikaans templates need to go through some teething first (I made a list on my user page of changes I'd like to effect at some point), so I would not recommend unleashing a horde of volunteers onto the wiki.

I can easily edit the applicable templates, but I'm not familiar with the module code (and the testing process) and my suggested changes are rather sweeping and will need a bot and some careful backwards compatibility planning. CeNobiteElf (talk) 20:37, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Moving to {{number box}}

I've made some updates to Module:number list/data/af to ensure that all information currently found in {{cardinalbox}} and {{ordinalbox}} are there. I'd like to convert these two templates to {{number box}} which is the modern/cleaner way of doing things (since the data is stored in the data file).

You can see what the change looks like here (it looks slightly different but basically has the same info):

• agt: old and new
• agste: old and new

Do you have any objections to this? tbm (talk) 06:15, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

No objections from my side, especially not if it makes things more maintainable. CeNobiteElf (talk) 22:32, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I went ahead and converted all pages to {{number box}}. I compared a few pages before and after and didn't see any regressions.

I had to change "negenhonderd" to "negehonderd" in the table. It seems that was a typo (or is that a variant? Seems "negenhonderd" is Dutch.)

Also, I had to add "elfste" to the table because that was missing. There are two ways to handle rare forms: add them to the table or remove the number box. I'm not sure what's best. (My inclination would be to just remove the number box.)

BTW, I also added/created neëntien and neëntig (and its variants from 91-99).

Anyway, if you notice any regressions, please {{ping}} me. tbm (talk)

Cool, nice job on filling out the table! I only added neë en neënde.

8 and 9 are our most "irregular" numerals, but at least their combinations are pretty consistent. As for other variants, negenhonderd is indeed Dutch, and after hundred combinations of hundred, thousand, million, etc. with 9's variants are rare being highly colloquial and regional (primarily Western Cape and Northern Cape, I would say) and poorly attested if at all so I wouldn't bother adding them.

honderd has a very common colloquial variant, honnerd (and all combinations with it), which arises from a common sound change that can occur in words with -nde- (e.g. ander (“other”) -> anner, sonder (“without”) -> sonner, hoender (“chicken”) -> hoener, eenders (“same, similar”) -> eners). Don't know if that's a set of variants we want to include in the table or not.

Similarly, -rt- can also regionally and colloquially undergo a sound change resulting in dertig becoming dêrig and veertig becoming veerig, unlike honnerd they're much more poorly attested in writing and I don't think they should be added to the table, but where attestable can be listed as alternative forms, without number boxes on their entries.

And lastly, to complicate things, Afrikaans traditionally uses long scale counting, but because of English influence short scale is also often used. I see English just has the forms listed with 2 number boxes on affected entries, should probably follow suit.

What are your thoughts? CeNobiteElf (talk) 22:26, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you on both counts - don't add the poorly attested ones; and if short scale is increasingly used, add that. tbm (talk) 03:05, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Can you check definition of kuier

Maybe you can help check something: Afrikaans kuier (with etymology of Dutch kuieren) is defined as "to walk leisurely, to gallivant" (in addition to "to visit").

But I noticed that https://gesellig.co.za/t/31288-kuier/ says: "Die Nederlandse "kuieren" (loop, wandel) is 'n valse vriend", suggesting that "to walk" is wrong.

Also ping @Lingo Bingo Dingo who added the word.

Thanks for checking. tbm (talk) 05:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)