Template talk:urj-fin-decl

Allative

Right now, the allative form is reconstructed as *-lek. Another form I've seen in literature is *-len, but I'm not at this time informed enough to really say if this is what we should be using. At some point I'll read more on the topic and probably write a longer post, but these are just some notes for now — surjection ⟨??⟩ 23:46, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

is supported by Aikio & Ylikoski 2006: Itämerensuomalaisten kielten ulkopaikallissijojen alkuperä ([1]; rather *-llen, arguing for an original geminated -l- by assimilation), Kallio 2020: Se ([2]), the common theory that the illative and allative endings are related (similarly to inessive/adessive and elative/ablative), and also Hevaha Ingrian -len (the final -n is also found in some dialects, it seems? The well known Varpunen jouluaamuna has köyhällen and SMS has a quote "tuĺ jo se hiki pellolen" from Kiihtelysvaara). It seems *-len has more support, so I think we should change the ending to that. Paging @Rua, Tropylium — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 13:21, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

As long as the origin of the *-k ~ *-n and l ~ ll variation is without full clarification, there is little reason to assume that there was a single PF allative ending. Quite a few cases endings had multiple variants, e.g. in some kind of morphophonological variation (clear at least for the inessive, illative and plural genitive and of course the partitive) and I would not rule out an explanation of this form. For Finnish dialects, cf. e.g. [3] (and see much more in specialist literature starting from I suppose Rapola, Hakulinen, Itkonen, and basically all the dialectal historical phonology monographs).

This template in general is basically unsourced and heavily based on just Standard Finnish. No fully detailed reconstruction of Proto-Finnic inflection has ever been published; morphophonology in particular has reams of open questions as soon as one starts looking. Any strict quality or reliability requirements would probably call for at least disabling this entirely for the time being (though I am enough of an eventualist / IDGAFist to not bother nominating it). --Tropylium (talk)