Template talk:RQ:Chaucer Canterbury Tales

The Hengwrt Chaucer

@Sgconlaw Can this template also use the Hengwrt Chaucer ([1395–1405])? J3133 (talk) 10:14, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

@J3133: let me look into it later. Ping me again in about a week if I forget. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:34, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: About a month; nevertheless, pinged. J3133 (talk) 13:53, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@J3133: OK, I've finally done it. However, as the National Library of Wales website does not use predictable URLs, the URL to be linked to has to be manually specified using |url=. (Also, please correct the example on the documentation page if necessary – I had some difficulty reading the manuscript.) — SGconlaw (talk) 17:34, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Unexpected * operator

@Sgconlaw

1387–1400, Geoffrey Chaucer, “The Marchauntes Tale”, in The Canterbury Tales, [Westminster: William Caxton, published 1478], →OCLC; republished in [William Thynne], editor, The Workes of Geffray Chaucer Newlye Printed, […], [London]: […] [Richard Grafton for] Iohn Reynes […], 1542, →OCLC, folio xxxiii, recto:

J3133 (talk) 01:10, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@J3133: Fixed. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:38, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

The Ellesmere Chaucer

Is it possible to use this template to cite the w:Ellesmere Chaucer? 98.170.164.88 00:31, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Is this work available online? If so, please provide the link. — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, there are some scans of an edition edited by Frederick Furnivall: [1], [2]. This looks like a scan of an original manuscript: [3]. 98.170.164.88 12:37, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

An example: batailled has a request for quotation.

• Hengwrt has And batayled / as it were a Castel wal
• 1542/Tyne has "And batelled, as it had be a castel wal"
• 1860 has Embattell'd, as it were a castle wall

It is found in Ellesmere, fifth to last line here, but there's no easy way to format the citation. User:Sgconlaw, please let me know if there's anything I can do to make it easier to add the option for this MS. 98.170.164.88 00:10, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Shall we just add one of the published versions edited by Furnivall? If so, which one? — Sgconlaw (talk) 02:33, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Whatever you think is best is fine with me. The original manuscript would be consistent with how Hengwrt is handled, but the edited version is obviously much easier to read for non-specialists.

If you want to use the Huntington MS scan, the formula for page URL is:

• If [folio] = 77 and [recto], then N = 2843.
• Else, N = 2364 + [folio] * 2 + (if [verso] then 1 else 0) + (if [folio] < 77 then 1 else 0).
• => https://hdl.huntington.org/digital/collection/p15150coll7/id/N

If you want to use the Furnivall, then the archive.org and hathitrust I linked above seem to be roughly equivalent. Hathitrust has a table of contents and an appendix that the archive.org copy I linked above doesn't. Also, hathitrust has better quality. In either case, you'd have to specify the page number in the edited book and not just the original folio number, but then linking to it is trivial. 98.170.164.88 03:56, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

OK. Is there a standard scholarly abbreviation for the Ellesmere manuscript, as there is for the Hengwrt (Hg)? — Sgconlaw (talk) 06:04, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

The standard abbreviation is "El". Here is a TOC that can be included in the documentation; feel free to modify the parameter or result column if any seem bad. (@J3133 may want to format the headings using medieval scribal abbreviations like they did for Hengwrt. This is above my pay grade.)

In the course of making the above TOC, I realized that making a link to the Hathitrust document given a page number is less obvious than I expected, since the footer numbering is not the same as the ordinary numbering of pages in the PDF. It may be easier to get a link using this GBooks copy, which seems to work with &pg=PA[number]; if even this fails, you could make a link that searches for "ELLESMERE [number]"... 98.170.164.88 08:34, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Automatic Hengwrt URL

https://viewer.library.wales/4628556#&cv=N where

N = [folio] * 2 + 10 + (if [verso] then 1 else 0)

e.g. 209v => https://viewer.library.wales/4628556#&cv=429 ; 213r => https://viewer.library.wales/4628556#&cv=436

98.170.164.88 23:41, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Oh, that’s helpful. — Sgconlaw (talk) 02:31, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Missing left square bracket

@Sgconlaw I pinged you two days ago and I am posting here as I am not sure if you saw it. J3133 (talk) 07:43, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

@J3133: Oops! — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:44, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Brackets

@J3133: the reason why there are only closing brackets under |year_published= is because the opening bracket is in |location=—in other words, the entire imprint is enclosed in brackets because it doesn't actually appear in the work: "[Westminster: William Caxton, published 1478]". Do we want to leave it like this, or change it to "[Westminster]: [William Caxton], published [1478]"? I think JeffDoozan said we ought to do the latter, but it does look rather odd in this case because every component of the imprint is in brackets … — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:43, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: The issue is not that the brackets are in separate parameters, but that the Hengwrt Chaucer imprint only has a lone right square bracket, the left one missing. J3133 (talk) 13:52, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@J3133: I see. Then it looks like we should go back to your edit for now, which I've restored. — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)