Talk:win-win

Translations of "win-win situation"

Moved from win-win situation... - -sche (discuss) 02:44, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

situation where both parties gain

• Chinese:

  Mandarin: 互利雙贏的局面, 互利双赢的局面 (hùlì shuāngyíng de júmiàn)

• (deprecated template usage) {{trans-mid}}
• Finnish: win-win-tilanne
• Greek: κατάσταση αμοιβαίου κέρδους f (katástasi amoivaíou kérdous)

En-dash versus hyphen

Can someone please set up a redirect for both win-win and lose-lose so they go to win–win and lose–lose, respectively? These terms should technically both have en dashes, not hyphens. Comment added by User:Electricmaster on 08 November 2019

I would agree. Not sure about the technicalities of doing that myself, so in the meanwhile I'll add a usage note here.

—DIV (1.129.105.237 08:39, 22 May 2021 (UTC))

Actually, this might be a widespread problem on Wiktionary. For instance red-green alliance and cost-benefit analysis should be using an en-dash as well. In fact, from a quick search I can't see any entries on Wiktionary using an en-dash! —DIV (1.129.105.237 08:57, 22 May 2021 (UTC))

And leaving aside the questions of which version should have greater prominence in Wiktionary, and whether a redirect would be appropriate, perhaps worst of all, the versions with en-dashes don't even exist! So searches on these terms simply fail, and they are redlinked: try win–win, red–green alliance and cost–benefit analysis.

—DIV (1.129.105.237 09:07, 22 May 2021 (UTC))

There is more discussion of this in Wiktionary's Beer Parlour.

—DIV (49.179.13.5 12:30, 6 August 2022 (UTC))

Usage notes: Strictly speaking,...

What is the exact reason(s) to use an en-dash instead? --Backinstadiums (talk) 05:36, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• See sense 3 on –#English, or Wikipedia's sense 1 on Dash. Or even Wikipedia's Manual of Style, which provides several examples such as "on–off switch", "analog–digital distinction". Basically, the en dash is being used to separate two parallel entities that are being connected, compared, or contrasted.
• On the other hand, for hyphens, see sense 1 here, and the MOS, especially item 3. Basically, a hyphen can be used to form a coordinative compound. This can be a compound modifier (a kind of "adjective" made up of multiple equal words, e.g., yellow-green), or less commonly a noun where each component "word" applies to or modifies the term, e.g., singer-songwriter, nation-state. Hyphens are also used to make subordinative compounds, where the relationship is unequal, like tree-hugging or skin-deep. (It's furthermore found when using a multiword noun attributively like an adjective: "the space age", but "a space-age tale" (the hyphen is not really required here, except for clarity).)
• To compare them, consider the examples:
  • yellow-green shirt: a shirt whose color is of a shade intermediate between yellow and green. The two colors form a coordinative compound modifier.
  • red–green color blindness: a condition that makes it impossible to distinguish between red and green. The two colors are being connected and contrasted.

• If you try to analyze win-win as a coordinative compound, it would be a win that is also a win... which is just the same as a win. If you analyze it as subordinative, it would be a win of a win, much as a witch-hunt is a hunt of a witch, which doesn't work either. And an attributive use doesn't fit well either; in the phrase "win-win situation", it's not like there is an object called a "win win" and we are relating the situation to it. (A noun sense of "win-win" does exist as the page says, but that is not how this phrase originated.)
• By contrast, it fits very neatly as a place to put an en dash. There are two alternatives: win, or win. On–off switch. Win–win situation. Same type of construction.

• So the fact that the hyphen is commonly used here is worth noting, as it is an exception to a general rule.
• That said, a lot of native English speakers (writers?) don't consistently distinguish between different types of dashes. It is possible to find any type of dash being used in any conceivable way. I'm usually not too careful, but I might give it more thought in formal writing. 70.172.194.25 03:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Great response! Thanks, "70.172.194.25"  :-)

—DIV (1.145.38.111 05:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC))