Talk:whitelash

whitelash definition

Hello, I am hoping to build a group consensus on the definition. The two definitions under consideration are as follows:

1. A perceived backlash by white people against another race.

1. a perceived backlash by Caucasians against ethnics.

My two issues with the first definition are the words "white people" and "another race". The definition of "white" under noun in Wiktionary is: "A person of European descent with light-coloured skin." Another way of stating this definition is Caucasian. The definition of "race" under the American Heritage Dictionary is: "A group of people identified as distinct from other groups because of supposed physical or genetic traits shared by the group. Most biologists and anthropologists do not recognize race as a biologically valid classification, in part because there is more genetic variation within groups than between them." In other words, there is only one race called the human race with the trinomial homo sapien sapiens.

The second definition uses the words "Caucasian" and "ethnic". The modern day usage of the word "Caucasian" in the Oxford Dictionary is: "It is now used as a synonym for ‘white or of European origin,’ as in the police are looking for a Caucasian male in his forties." The definition of "ethnic" under Merriam-Webster states: "associated with or belonging to a particular race or group of people who have a culture that is different from the main culture of a country." I think this supports the word ethnic being used in the definition; however, I am open to substituting the word "ethnics" for the words "another ethnicity" or "another ethnic group".

I look forward to your input and improving the definition.

Thank you IQ125 (talk) 11:36, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

I strongly dislike the use of ethnic as a noun in this context. I'd go with people of color or, if that's too PC for you, "members of other ethnicities". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:21, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree that we should avoid using "ethnic" as a noun here. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:26, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

I do not mind changing "ethnic", but definitely not "people of colour" that is 1960's usage not modern usage. IQ125 (talk) 16:46, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Google Ngrams suggests that "people of color" reached its peak around the year 2000 and is still widely used. I think that phrasing would be appropriate, but I'm also fine with "members of other ethnicities" or "people of other ethnicities". —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:51, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

"People of color" is often seen as an Americanism, whereas "people of other ethnicities" is neutral in terms of dialect and political correctness. — 91.238.123.116 17:14, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Our definition of "ethnic" (noun) could include white people, therefore it is essential that we do not use "ethnics", since that could mean "white people". Equinox ◑ 03:37, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

To clarify: noun says "an ethnic person"; so we go to the adjective, which describes "a group of people having common racial, national, religious or cultural origins", which could for example be Celts or Slavs, who are white. I also agree with Widsith below that "ethnics" sounds dated and pejorative. Equinox ◑ 08:02, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

• The definition I added, subsequently removed, was "A backlash by white people against those of other ethnicities", which I think is much better than what we currently have. More cautiously, one could insert "especially" before "against", but so far all the citations I found are race-related. Other people can discuss the details, though I will note that we absolutely must not use the noun "ethnics", as currently, which is horribly outdated and pejorative, and I see no reason to say "Caucasians" instead of "white people". The meaning may be technically the same, but it's not a "Caucasianlash", it's a whitelash and it's absolutely about white people with all the connotations that term has. Ƿidsiþ 07:53, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

• But what is a "white person"? I met a middle eastern person with skin as light as mine and she considers herself a visible minority, i.e. non-white! The term "white" does not necessarily mean someone with light coloured skin, it can depend on other variables, such as geographic and cultural. Obviously, "whitelash" contains the word "white", so I think the definition owes it to the reader to chose a different word(s) to define white. I am open to changing the word ethnic to whatever the consensus decides is best. Thank you for participating :) 11:39, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

  If you're genuinely confused about what the word "white" means in this context, I suggest looking at our entry for white, sense 2. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:05, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

  Hello Granger, the definition you are recommending states: "Of or relating to Caucasians, people of European descent with light-coloured skin."  In other words, we could substitute the word "Caucasian" for "white" as I used in the definition and described in my initial entry at the top of this discussion. 18:29, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

  But why would you? That only obscures the link between the word and its definition for no good purpose. And while ‘white’ and ‘Caucasian’ may mean roughly the same thing, the connotations could be different. ‘Whitelash’ is clearly about white people and we should just say so; saying ‘Caucasians’ smacks of a misguided attempt to be more "scientific". Ƿidsiþ 07:39, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

  I agree that it's better for the definition to say "white people" than "Caucasians". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:11, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

  I think so too. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:30, 22 November 2016 (UTC)