Talk:well-run

RFD discussion: September–November 2021

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well-run

looks SOP to me. Roger the Rodger (talk) 09:48, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

• Wonderfool, if I thought that, it wouldn't have been entered. Keep. DonnanZ (talk) 10:44, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

  I don't want you to be deleted, Donnanz, just this term you happened to make - you're awesome, and I love you! Roger the Rodger (talk) 14:14, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

• Delete. Obviously the attributive form of the transparent qualification “well run”; see run, sense 4. — This unsigned comment was added by Lambiam (talk • contribs) at 10:09, 30 September 2021 (UTC).

That's unhelpful having to wade through that lot, there are three sense 4s. It comes from the verb, sure, but it's not merely attributive if it's comparable. DonnanZ (talk) 10:53, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand the comparability issue. It applies to all attributive uses of well + adjective. “John’s essay was researched quite thoroughly, but Jane’s was nevertheless the better-researched of the two, so she went home with the prize.” In fact, this argues for non-idiomaticity; compare ^✽a better-done steak.  --Lambiam 07:42, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

The use of better in the comparative argues for it being SOP, since it suggests that it's the modifier rather than the phrase as a whole that's being used comparatively. Otherwise one would expect "more well-run". Chuck Entz (talk) 17:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Delete. Yeah I get that it might in theory mean something else (forced to flow through the well that Jack and Jill knew) but in reality, there's an obvious sense of "well" that would be assumed to be the one, and "well-Xed" is exactly the kind of thing we are deleting with those attributive noun entries like "a prawn-cocktail flavoured crisp". Cf. "a well-gnawed bone" (of a dog), "your well-used excuses" (boyfriend) etc. lol. No. Equinox ◑ 06:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

(And should anybody think I have something against the "well": would you want the entries for "poorly-run, badly-run, shamefully-run, shoddily-run...": I really don't understand why people create this stuff.) Equinox ◑ 06:32, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

As we know, English is a quirky language, and Wiktionary tends to make it even quirkier. As an editor, when I create an entry I never know what will be subjected to an RFD attack - what I think may be attacked is left alone, and what I think is a safe entry can come under attack. Anyway, I wouldn't consider an entry for poorly-run, which is definitely the attributive of poorly run, a two-word term which can also be attributive. But saying that well-run is simply attributive is questionable when it is recognised by other dictionaries (yes, some maverick will poo-pooh that) - I regard it as a compound word which happens to be hyphenated - it can be used as well run as a predicate, of course.

Despite the presence of run#Adjective, it doesn't seem to apply here. DonnanZ (talk) 11:24, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that right there is the beauty of Wiktionary! Roger the Rodger (talk) 12:54, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

I drive on the right side of the street in Los Angeles all the time, but if I tried to do that in England, I would get a ticket- except on one-way streets. That isn't a reason to complain about how stupid traffic enforcement is, but a sign that there's something more to it than just "always drive on the right(or left) side of the street.

You have a tendency to ignore lexical distinctions if you like something or find it useful. The main exception is the distinction between adjectives and attributive nouns, which you understand perfectly. If you understood the distinction between idiomatic and non-idiomatic phrases half as well, we might get somewhere. The distinction isn't always cut-and-dried, but it's not nearly as arbitrary as you think it is. Chuck Entz (talk) 17:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

When I first drove an RHD car in Calais I started off on the right, but switched to the left when turning right at a T-junction. I wondered why all the French drivers were flashing their headlights, until it dawned on me. Driving an RHD on the right or an LHD on the left isn't as easy as it might sound, I have done both. But the rule of the road is more important than any rule in Wiktionary. Idiomacy isn't always a factor. Reading just one page of a magazine, I can find unmade roads (added a sense to unmade), road haulage, rail-connected, post-vaccine (done), peak-hour, out-of-course, freight paths, lower-earning, three-fold, wagon fleet and others. I'm not saying we need entries for all those, but I want to look at out-of-course in particular, as it has a different meaning than the entry for out of course. DonnanZ (talk) 21:16, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Any perceived discrepancy between the senses of out of course and out-of-course is incidental, due to the specific instances in which the vague term is applied. It means essentially the same as “off course”, “not following the due course”, “irregular”, which may be literal (“a river that is out of course”^[1]) or figurative (e.g., of a payment after suspension^[2]).  --Lambiam 15:36, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Delete. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 23:04, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Normally I would say delete, but I'd like to point out that we have a lemming issue with this one. DAVilla 19:10, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. It would appear that all the "delete" voters have deliberately turned a blind eye to that, or haven't even bothered to look. DonnanZ (talk) 14:59, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

• Keep per numerous lemmings. Wiktionary can not be less informative than other dictionaries. [3],[4],[5] bd2412 T 01:51, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Keep per bd2412. AG202 (talk) 13:48, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Delete, SOP. PUC – 12:05, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

RFD-no-consensus AG202 (talk) 02:58, 15 November 2021 (UTC)