Talk:vonj

Word vonj in Croatian means "fragrance", "scent", "odour" and "smell" thus it is synonymous with word miris, while in Serbian language word vonj mean "stench" and "(bed) smell" thus it is antonymous with word miris. I don't understand why this is problem, and why this can not be put in. 5.43.174.59 12:09, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

It also means "stench" in Croatian - see HJP. I've never heard this word used in a non-pejorative context. Can you provide citations for the sense "miris" ? --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Gdje godi sam, lje sam s misli na zlato koje mi je doma, koje bez vonja veći vonj ima neg svi vonji. Stari pisci hrvatski, Skup, Drugi čin, Marin Držić

Ljubica, pripros cvit, nu lipo zač vonja, / ni vitez taj na svit ki ne će sit s konja / da nje bus utrgne i stavi za klobuk Stari pisci hrvatski, Zbornik Nikše Ranjine, CCCXXXIV., Šiško Menčetić

Proljetje cvjetice, cvietja vonj da diele, rumene ružice i lire pribiele. Stari pisci hrvatski, Ljubdrag i Ljubmir, Ivan Bunić Vučić

Hrvatski jezični portal is highly inaccurate even second-hand dictionary and thus not valid authority in word definition, the word vonj always had "good", "nice" meaning in Croatian language and almost never a negative one. 5.43.174.59 20:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Seems to be an obsolete meaning unused for centuries. Modern corpora search yields only pejorative usages. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 20:47, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Not true word vonj today has same meaning as before, this is an example : ... Oh, sunca, sunca, sunca! / I vonja sa doline / I vjetra sa vrhunca! Cvrčak, Vladimir Nazor

It's an obsolete meaning used by some poets, so what? 99.99% of people are unaware of it. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 12:05, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

So 99.99% are unaware of it - so what !, 99.99% are unaware what word obijest means, or bugariti, or libiti... or I don't know what else, this does not means it doesn't exists. Your pity little, little language definition is poor and does not constituted what Serbo-Croatian, or Croatian, or Serbian... is. From where you took the numbers anyway ? Do have some reliable source for that ? If not, who are you to claim something like this ? Pity, that someone like you have power here ! 95.178.199.122 12:45, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

obijest is a common word, with orders of magnitude more attestation than this meaning of vonj. bugariti is relatively obscure, and should probably be marked as only occurring in the literary language. On Wiktionary words are marked with labels with respect to present time. In other words, if a word had a particular meaning centuries ago, but today such meaning is out of use, to the extant that that pretty much nobody is using it apart from poets who took the effort to learn the obsolete meaning not naturally from the vernacular usage, but from books, and use it only for poetic purposes (it's a convenient monosyllabic that rhymes with many other words) - then it should be marked as obsolete.

All of the evidence that you submitted are ancient and early modern works of poetry. You need to find several attestations in modern usage, and only then can we mark it as rare or something like that. The burden of proof is upon you, not me. We regularly delete meanings and words that are not attested. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 13:37, 30 November 2013 (UTC)