Talk:unspoken rule

RFD 2014

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unspoken rule

Completely covered by unspoken + rule. --Hekaheka (talk) 00:51, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

unwritten rule

• Ditto.

Keep both; an unspoken rule remains an unspoken rule even if it is "spoken", and the same goes for an unwritten rule. For example:

• 2002, Susan Barksdale, ‎Teri Lund, Rapid Strategic Planning, page 22:

  The employees are well compensated and it is an unspoken rule that leaving early is not acceptable, and most employees are at their desks at least an hour before they are scheduled to begin the day's work.

Obviously, what is described here as an "unspoken" rule had to have been conveyed to the author at some point, probably by someone speaking the rule. bd2412 T 02:04, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

That isn't obvious at all. Reading this, I would assume the author deduced the rule from observation rather than because someone told her about it directly. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 07:53, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Even so, this author has now written it down. Is it still an unspoken/unwritten rule, once it has been spoken/written? I think it is, and therefore exceeds the literal meaning of the phrase. bd2412 T 13:13, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

What's the relationship between this and gentleman's agreement? It seems more like they are constructed as synonyms of gentleman's agreement rather than constructed as unspoken + rule. If it can be demonstrated that they are close to synonymous, we can perhaps preserve it as an {{alternative form of}} redirect to gentleman's agreement. TeleComNasSprVen (talk) 03:40, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Am I missing something? Is there something in the definition of "unspoken rule" that the definition #2 of "unspoken" does not cover? --Hekaheka (talk) 07:24, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

A gentleman's agreement is not the same thing at all. A gentleman's agreement is freely entered into; an unspoken rule may have an element of coercion, it at least does not imply willing compliance. A gentleman's agreement is a contract (albeit a legally unenforceable one) where both parties derive some benefit; for an unwritten rule the benefit is entirely one way - from the rule subject to the rule maker. A gentleman's agreement is not necessarily unwritten and it is certainly never unspoken. SpinningSpark 09:29, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

It's closer to the idea of a (societal) norm, used within smallish groups (a village, a workplace, a family, or even between two people). Breaking one might be a faux pas, and may lead to sanctions like the silent treatment or ostracism (consider that people may not want to explain what you did wrong). — Pingku^dimmi 11:49, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

• I don't think they should be treated as synonyms. An unspoken rule is something accepted tacitly, whereas an unwritten rule may be mentioned, but not recorded in writing. Not quite the same. Donnanz (talk) 10:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Weak keep unspoken rule, not sure about unwritten rule. DAVilla 12:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

• Delete both and add proper senses to unwritten and unspoken. Many things can be unwritten or unspoken such as __ secret, __ convention, __ lie, __ tension, etc., all of which apply even if these things are written or spoken. --WikiTiki89 14:29, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

  Apparently these senses are already there, so the terms are 100% SOP. --WikiTiki89 14:31, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Delete both. Neither unspoken rule nor unwritten rule are synonymous with gentleman's agreement in my experience. An unwritten or unspoken rule is one that is unwritten or unspoken at the time it is effective between the parties. The actions of observers and the subsequent actions of the participants are completely irrelevant. DCDuring TALK 14:47, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

• I would keep them, but the definitions need revising; they are rather nonsensical. Donnanz (talk) 17:04, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Keep both at least as a translation target. Matthias Buchmeier (talk) 20:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

• Keep both. Idiomatic. If an unwritten or unspoken rule is written or spoken that doesn't suddenly change their meaning. The definition needs refining though, since they are not really rules per se but conventions or norms. ---> Tooironic (talk) 02:29, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

  But this is a property of the words unwritten and unspoken. Not everything unwritten or unspoken is actually never written or never spoken. We have senses at both terms that cover the meaning of unwritten rule and unspoken rule. — This unsigned comment was added by Wikitiki89 (talk • contribs) at 03:35, 3 January 2014.

• Keep both. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:49, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Kept. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 04:06, 8 February 2014 (UTC)