Talk:toril
Add topic@Ultimateria: Hi. I'm wondering about the suffix -il of this Spanish word. You see, apart from toril (as well as carril and hogaril), all the members of Category:Spanish words suffixed with -il are adjectives, not nouns.
I suspect Spanish has a second suffix, which comes from Latin -ile (suffix forming names of enclosures for animals; forming names of places where certain goods are stored). Are there other words in Spanish for which such an analysis would make sense? For example, words that are descended from Category:Latin words suffixed with -ile? I see Latin fenile is said to have Spanish henil (“hayloft”) as a descendant, but we don't have an entry for that word yet. *canile has a Portuguese descendant, so maybe Spanish kept the word too?
It's non-productive in French (I only know of the inherited chenil, fenil + the Spanish borrowing toril), slightly productive in Italian (campanile, pecorile, and maybe porcile + the words inherited from Latin: canile, fienile, caprile). Canonicalization (talk) 22:54, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Canonicalization I've dug up some more non-adjectival uses:
- campanil (“belltower”)
- chivitil (“goat pen”) (obsolete)
- cortil (“corral”)
- dedil (“fingerstall”)
- medianil (“party wall”)
- monjil (“habit; tunic”) (from the adjective)
- ovil (“sheepfold”) (from Latin)
- pechil (“lock”) (Salamanca)
- pernil (“haunch”)
- redil (“sheepfold”)
- serranil (“type of knife”)
- tamboril (“tabor; small drum”)
- It's hard to see a connection between many of these besides the animal pens/general storage. There is a diminutive quality to some, but not as a standalone diminutive suffix. I didn't include some others that are agricultural (but not pens) from rural Spain, but suffice it to say that it's not a very productive suffix and that many words with it are unattestable. Its main sense has been almost entirely displaced by -al. Personally I would not add a sense to -il because I have no idea how it should be defined. Ultimateria (talk) 17:11, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Ultimateria: Thank you for this. I've found this Latin reference, which mentions two other Spanish words: cubil (cognate with Italian covile) and sedil. Canonicalization (talk) 16:45, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
+ this Canonicalization (talk) 16:46, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Canonicalization Interesting, I'm not finding any use of sedil as "pigsty". Ultimateria (talk) 22:55, 3 July 2019 (UTC)