Talk:the

Early discussion

Isn't it so that in Finnish the words ending changes to indicate whether it is determined or not?Polyglot 17:45 May 4, 2003 (UTC)

Not really. You may be thinking of Swedish and other North Germanic languages that have suffixed definite articles. It's true in Finnish that, in certain contexts, certain cases are used so that they indicate the same thing that is expressed in English by different articles. Word order can matter, too. Hyark 20:48, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Should we include Da as a related term? e.g. album title Boy in Da Corner (by Dylan Mills, a.k.a. Dizzee Rascal). Would it be described as 'slang' or 'hip-hop'? DavidL 21:23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I suggest putting it under "see also", as "colloquial". We can then add "t'" (northern English), and "de" (Black? Southern US?) — Paul G 13:03, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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I don't see why the unstressed pronunciation has been removed. This is important. thə, /ðə/, /D@/ — Hippietrail 00:09, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It's simply not correct to talk about the unstressed pronunciation. Different dialects and even different speakers do different things, including /D@/, /D/, /D'/ (/D/ followed by a glottal stop, if I got the SAMPA wrong), and probably others. I've tried to detail that in the note on pronunciation, but we're really verging into phonology here. Similarly, the original statement distinguishing pre-vocalic and pre-consonantal was incorrect, and again the real story is a matter of phonology.

The only reason to talk about this at all is to note that the behaves a bit differently because it tends to attach to its target (or whatever the technical term is -- I'll see if I can look that up). But we don't want to go to far. For example, we might mention the y glide that gets inserted between a stressed the and a word starting with a vowel (the onion) if you pronounce the long e there, but that's the same for any vowel/vowel comination (be alert) for example, so it doesn't deserve special mention.

Hope that clarifies somewhat. -dmh 12:59, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

But /ðə/ is the standard unstressed pronunciation - check any print dictionary. It's important that Wiktionary gives this too. — Paul G 13:03, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I wonder if that reflects actual usage. E.g., take 100 people at random and get them to say "the word 'the'" and see how it comes out. My personal inclination is to use a long 'e', but I may just be non-standard. In any case, the present pronunciation section looks OK to me. -dmh 19:52, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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Where there are different forms for different numbers, genders and cases, these would look better if they were tabulated. — Paul G 13:20, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Definitions

Number three needs some work. Mention of adjectival nouns needs to be made. It seems that the function of "the" is to turn adjectives, "hungry," into noun phrases, "the hungry." I can't really think of a good dictionary sounding phrasing, so i'll leave it for now. — This unsigned comment was added by 70.149.213.180 (talk) at 21:50, 5 August 2005 (UTC).

Part of speech

Should this be listed as ===Article=== and further qualified on the definition lines? --Connel MacKenzie T C 19:26, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I think that makes more sense, yeah. Jon Harald Søby 19:29, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

The US Festival

The usage notes touches on what happens in dialect that does not pronounce "the" as /ðiː/ before a vowel, and takes the example of "the US Festival". I am puzzled though, because I thought there was no need for this distinct pronunciation anyway since "US Festival", as far as pronunciation is concerned, doesn't begin with a vowel. In the usage notes of "an", which I believe gives me support, there are examples of when to use "a" and when to use "an". One specifically finds "a user (u is pronounced as yu)". Isn't the case the same when it comes to "US Festival"? 163.9.100.136 12:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps "Us festival" is a dated example. Only the first letter is capitalized, as it's "us" (as in "we") not "US" (as in "United States"). "The Onion" would be a more up-to-date example, but I was looking for a minimal pair (in this case "the us" vs. "thus"). -dmh 15:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Self-reference

Is there a way to get rid of "the" in the definitions? Eyu100 03:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but I don't consider it necessary. If the definition said "'the' means 'the'", it would be a problem. But if the definition simply uses "the" as a large percentage of English sentences do, it doesn't have to be a problem. E.g. "'the' is the definite article in English". Circular arguments which involve greatly widening spirals, dependent mostly on other things and only partly on self-reference, can be valid. If we have a period at the end of every definition I don't think we leave it off when we define "period". I suppose a very small percentage of users may experience some frustration at the inclusion of the word in the definition in this case. Ideally it would not be circular at all but in the case of the word "the" it's such a common word it would be too hard to avoid using it. --Coppertwig 03:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Non-parallel examples

The parallel examples (I'm reading the book/I'm reading a book) give people who already know how to use "the" something to think about to help them understand the written definition; but I think they do little or nothing to help someone who is not already familiar with "a" and "the". Even someone who already speaks a language with equivalent words will not be able to tell from those examples which is which. The non-parallel examples (The book I gave you yesterday/A book I saw on your shelf) are examples of usage which do illustrate the meaning and use of the word "the". At least a little. Compare "I have a broom" with "I used the broom to sweep the floor clean" as illustrations of the meaning of the word "broom". Since some people seem to prefer the parallel examples, I restored the original parallel examples and put the non-parallel examples as additional illustrative sentences. (The other two sentences about it being the most common word are interesting but IMO don't help illustrate the meaning and usage; a person could take almost any text and find the word "the" being used and get just about as much information about how to use it as those examples give.) --Coppertwig 14:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

But the non-parallel examples add nothing in terms of explanation. You could just as easily say: "A book I gave you yesterday." and "The book I saw on your shelf." The sentences about common usage should be under a header for "Trivia". I'll make that change now. --EncycloPetey 16:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

They do add something in terms of explanation. You could just as easily say those things only in the sense that you could just as easily say "I used the hat to sweep the floor clean." The value of the illustrative examples is not in the impossibility or difficulty in saying them (though if such examples could be found they might be preferable) but in the relative likelihood of a situation springing to mind or occurring in day-to-day life.

I could easily say "the book I gave you yesterday", but I would be unlikely ever to say "a book I gave you yesterday". Likely I only gave the person one book. If I had handed the person several books, I still wouldn't say "a book I gave you yesterday," but "one of the books I gave you yesterday". The only situations I can think of where I would be likely to say "a book I gave you yesterday" are: where I had given the person some boxes of miscellaneous stuff that they probably hadn't unpacked yet and therefore didn't know there were some books included; or where the person has severe memory loss.

Similarly, I can easily imagine saying "a book I saw on your shelf", but it's harder to find situations for saying "the book I saw on your shelf". In my experience, if a shelf has any books it almost always has more than one. If there is only one book, I would be more likely to say "the book on your shelf". If there is more than one, I might say "the book I saw on your shelf," but it wouldn't be literally correct, because I would be implicitly claiming not to have seen, even out of the corner of my eye, the other books on the same shelf; and I would probably also only find occasion to say that if I had already mentioned the same book so the person already knew which book had particularly caught my eye.

So there are differences in the likelihood of using the meaning of "a" or of "the" in each context, and therefore the examples can serve an illustrative purpose. Maybe there are better examples. "A book I saw at the library" might be better for the second one; though I find it too easy to imagine myself saying something like "you know that book I mentioned to you that I had seen at the library?" or "the book I saw at the library" for short. --Coppertwig 03:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I see where you're going now (and didn't before). How about using: "The street in front of your house" and "A street in Paris"? This reduces the possibility of flip-flopping the usage. --EncycloPetey 03:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Those are better examples. Thanks. I've put them into the article. --Coppertwig 03:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

the...the...

This part is quite complicated in some languages and it seems it's more appropriate for grammar references than dictionaries. I have added Japanese, Chinese and Arabic. Still not 100% happy, if it's clear. In Japanese, with verbs, it's a similar pattern: 学べば学ぶほど、何も知らなかった事に気づく - the more I learn, the more I feel I don't understand. ("more" is implied). Anatoli 01:06, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

American vs. British usage

"The" is more common in British English where it would be seen as superfluous in semi-informal American usage, harkening to early 20th century American usage. One example: "Ask the cancer nurses a question" (http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/utilities/contact-us/index.htm). American usage would likely omit "the" or use something such as "our". --达伟 11:02, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe what you're talking about is informal use. I'm not sure what to call it, but this kind of condensed writing can be found even in legalese. Without "the", the example you gave would sound strange to my American ears if spoken or in prose. DAVilla 04:40, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Omitting "the" changes the meaning. It then refers to any old nurses, and not a specific named group (i.e. the ones working for the site). Equinox ◑ 04:43, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

cele

The last entry for Romanian, cele, doesn't wikilink to anything Romanian. Rothorpe (talk) 01:14, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

That's because no one has added a Romanian section to that page yet. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:58, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

not last the year

like new shows the sentence "Our like-new refrigerator didn't last the year". How should the differences be added between such a sentence with a year and with the year? --Backinstadiums (talk) 10:29, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Nothing to be added. "The year" means we are referring to a specific year; "a year" is less precise about when. Equinox ◑ 13:00, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Great, then maybe we can add this very extremely notably common example to one of the definitions, frankly I'm not sure which. By the way, we have translations for a sense marked "this" but no definition stating "this". DAVilla 04:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

It may mean "that" just as well as "this". Consider "If she does XYZ in the year 2030 she won't last the year". Equinox ◑ 04:56, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

she looks the happier for her trip

(often followed by for) used before comparative adjectives or adverbs for emphasis: she looks the happier for her trip
https://www.wordreference.com/definition/the

--Backinstadiums (talk) 12:48, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

another word for per

another word for per, esp with nouns or noun phrases of cost: fifty pence the pound
https://www.wordreference.com/definition/the

--Backinstadiums (talk) 12:50, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Same for "a/an", e.g. "it costs two pence a go". Equinox ◑ 13:00, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

/ei/

thay reads: Eye dialect spelling of the'. However OED only reads : obs. forms of thae, they, though.' --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:24, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation

According to Longman Pronunciation Dictionary

THE: Strong form ðiː, weak forms ði, ðə —Native speakers sometimes ignore this distribution, in particular by using ðə before a vowel (which in turn is usually reinforced by a preceding ʔ), or ðiː in any environment, though especially before a hesitation pause. Furthermore, some speakers use stressed ðə as a strong form.

--Backinstadiums (talk) 20:44, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

(The) last/next week/month/year etc.

"Last week, month etc (without the) is the week, month etc just before this one. If I am speaking in July, last month was June; in 2006, last year was 2005. The last week, month etc is the period of seven/thirty/etc days up to the moment of speaking. On July 15th 2006, the last month is the period from June 16th to July 15th; the last year is the 12 months starting in July 2005"

--Backinstadiums (talk) 08:59, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

any the

Just as none the redirects here, e.g. as in If you don't tell them, nobody will be any the wiser --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:41, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

much the

Shouldn't much the redirect here just as none the does? --Backinstadiums (talk) 21:26, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

I've deleted that redirect for "none the" since the definition of "the" only gives half the information you'd need to understand it. DAVilla 04:45, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Modern British pronunciation

Among young people in Britain it's apparently now common to say /ðə/ all the time, even where people used to say /ðiː/. For example, "/ðə/ apple", not "/ðiː/ apple". This is particularly noticeable in MLE speech, but here's a non-MLE example: [1] (from 2'30, she says "/ðə/ orange" several times). We should probably mention this in the pronunciation notes, ideally citing a source. Equinox ◑ 19:17, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes, this is a more general development than the tame dialect note would answer. It's mentioned in Grammar and Usage: Your Questions Answered by Michael McCarthy (2019) which took me here. Can't give the pager number now, but should be easy to find with the index. There might be better sources of course. -87.123.123.204 23:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

the hospital

Is it really /ði:/ in the context cited in the pronunciation notes? In an office with six people where almost everything was done electronically, the pen on the counter became "[ˈðʌ] pen" one day when two people wanted to use it at the same time. I wonder if the hospital example tends to attract [i:] because /h/ is such a weak consonant, and even silent for some speakers. —Soap— 20:15, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Entry quality table

Status of English section

Group	Subgroup	Item	Explanation	Status	Phase	To do	Notes
Entry structure		etymologies	order by commonness of usage	OK	2
Entry structure		part of speech sections	order by commonness of usage	NA	2
Entry structure	definitions	senses	order by commonness of usage	?	2
Entry structure	definitions	subsenses	order by commonness of usage	NA	2
Entry structure	(sub)sections	Pronunciation		INC	1
Entry structure	(sub)sections	Etymology		OK	1
Entry structure	(sub)sections	Translations	for each sense	INC	1
Entry structure	(sub)sections	Translations	for each subsense	NA	2?
Entry structure	(sub)sections	Derived terms		INC	2
Entry structure	(sub)sections	Related terms		NONE	2
Definitions		completeness		?	1
Definitions		minimal overlap		?	1
Definitions		move synonyms to synonym template		NO	1
Definitions		use non-gloss definitions template as appropriate		OK	1
Definitions	subsenses	logical grouping		?	1
Definitions		non-technical wording		?	2
Attestation	quantity	3		=<1	2
Attestation	quality	source	durably archived, Usenet, other, pageURL	?	2
Attestation	quality	unambiguousness		?	2
Attestation		no quotations section	ambiguous quotations to Citations subpage	OK	2
Usage	grammatical	examples		?	2?
Usage	semantic	examples	eg, for concreteness	NA	2?
Usage		notes		?	2?
Usage	grammatical	labels	(in)transitive; (un)countable, etc.	NA	1
Usage	other	labels	rarity, obsolescence, usage context, topic?	?	2
Other content	Etymology	ancestry	Use templates		1
Other content	Etymology	cognates, etc	Use collapsible templates		1
Other content	Pronunciation	IPA	At least US, UK		1
Other content	Pronunciation	audio	At least US, UK	INC	1
Other content	Nym sections	Synonyms	all using {{syn}} unless very few defs (<3?, <5?), but always if other nym templates		2
Other content	Nym sections	Hyponyms	all using {{hypo}} unless very few defs (<3?, <5?)		2
Other content	Nym sections	other nyms	all using templates	NA	2
Other content	Translations	table for every sense (& subsense?)	all using templates	INC	2
Other content	Derived terms	cover all non-trivial that are in enwikt		INC	2
Other content	Related terms	cover all non-trivial that are in enwikt		NONE	2
Formatting	all running text	links for all and only words not in NGSL		INC	1
Formatting	definitions	Initial uppercase, terminal punctuation		OK	1
Formatting	definitions	{{n-g}}, as appropriate		OK	1
Formatting	templating	Use of all appropriate templates		?	1
Supplemental material	images	where useful to illustrate etymology or make concrete		NA	2
Supplemental material	examples	where useful to make concrete		NA	3
Non-core etymologies, PoS sections	abbreviations, letter, obsolete, rare, etc.	check for plausibility, formatting		NA	2